First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

Nostalrius official announcements

Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Illidan » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:12 pm

Pottu wrote:
Sallerius wrote:U say they stealing data like they do that for their benefit.This was fan based project.Nost community of all should understand this, but noo, most of u just care for ur lvl60 characters...

Probably not worth the effort to respond to an account created today, which has only made that single post. Especially as everything in his post was factually wrong.


I'll tell you what's "factually wrong" alright then.

See, there's this little thing called cognitive dissonance, or in plainer English, sour grapes.
If people were hit on the heads with truncheons once a month, and no one could do anything about it, pretty soon there'd be all sorts of philosophers, pretending to be wise as you put it, who found all sorts of amazing benefits to being hit on the head with a truncheon once a month.

Like, it makes you tougher, or it makes you happier on the days when you're not getting hit with a truncheon. But if you went up to someone who wasn't getting hit, and you asked them if they wanted to start, in exchange for those amazing benefits, they'd say no. And if the damn server DID NOT HAVE TO GET CLOSED if you came from somewhere that no one had ever even heard of Blizzard and I suggested to you that it would be an amazing wonderful great idea to have all your time put into something wiped off, why, you'd have me hauled right off to a lunatic asylum!

There are just too many things "factually wrong" about Nostalrius, and not because of the team that kept it up, rather because of the lack of spirit, you gave up and that's that.

Because you're afraid of it, because you don't really want to fight Blizzard, and that thought hurts so much inside you that you have to rationalize it away, do something to numb the pain, so you won't have to think about it -
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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Robotron » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:20 pm

Pottu wrote:Probably not worth the effort to respond to an account created today, which has only made that single post. Especially as everything in his post was factually wrong.

Never change.

Also, someone stole your name in the PlayTBC Discord and was acting pretty mean/racist. The real Pottu would never stoop to such lows. =(
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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Pottu » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:36 pm

I was informed of it. Any "Pottu" anywhere else is not the real deal and hopefully this is obvious to any former Nostalrius player. Nothing I can do about.
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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Robotron » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:44 pm

It was pretty obvious when he started speaking 4chan to me. =P
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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Enjurbn » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:34 pm

Pottu wrote:Probably not worth the effort to respond to an account created today, which has only made that single post. Especially as everything in his post was factually wrong.


Don't you understand what he meant? Really? It had nothing to do with you making profit, rather than with the Nostalrius project being illegal from the day 1 in the eyes of Blizzard, you knew damn well their stance on private servers when you started it, that they are against it. But now you claim:

We have the idea and sense that Nostalrius can no longer live if Blizzard does not accept it. Nostalrius was a fan made project; therefor, hiding it in offshore countries to continue against the original game creator would be a transgression of our principles, of the reasons why Nostalrius existed in the first place.


Hiding it offshore is against your "principles", but hiding it in France was okay for some reason. And again you knew damn well from the beginning that Blizzard does not accept private servers, but you thought that they would not get you there in France, that's why you started it, not because you thought that Blizzard would be ok with you doing it.

So this whole reasoning, that oh, we're the good guys, we respect Blizzard's will.. do you think we're stupid? Just say that you cba to move this thing around, that you're tired, etc. Why do you feed us this bs?
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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Nevergrim » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:03 pm

Ok gms and aministrators i respect you all, but please answer my apeal, i am one of the first members in the server i am Nevergrim you follower. i love this game and this community, i have been streaming for this server, advertising it to my friends, build 2 sucksesfull guilds in pvp server, please i want my acount to be in the database i have no chance to aprove i want it since i dont have E-mail, but i want my acounts to be published into the database when you release it, i made a topick long ago i want my acount to be bound to an E-mail adress, and noone answered me for 3 - 4 months please check my post you have not found descision yet? I want to continue your legacy so please answer me this:
1) my acount is not bount to e-mail because its verry old since the first days of nostalrius: check my playtime:

Nevergrim: t2 warrior guild master of <Lightfall>, officer from <it burns when i pvp> and many other guilds
Eveningfall: CL of <it burns when i pvp<
Gadniar: twink character paladin around lvl 40

in the same acount i have lvl 1 paladin called : Lightfall

i am sure its more than 100 days playtime

2) there is no chance for me to prove this is my acount since i dont have E-mail adress on it: so please contact me so i can prove it with screanshots since the dawn of Nostalrius

3) there are other people like me playing since the release: Etecc, Aleksandria, henkebenke (not sure about him), aragot (not sure about him)


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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Sallerius » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:29 pm

Because you're afraid of it, because you don't really want to fight Blizzard, and that thought hurts so much inside you that you have to rationalize it away, do something to numb the pain, so you won't have to think about it

This is post from eu.battle.net
Aenjin, Just a simple question then. When you have got hundred's if not into the thousand's of free to play games out there now, some graphically far superior to Warcraft's some very immersive, they go to find a private server to play a 12 year old game on (Vanilla to wrath) . Something that could be buggy they could get ripped off or have to pay for in game items and all gone within the blink of an eye when blizzard descends on them.

The common theme is not that it's free it's that they want to play something they love, without seeing that i truly don't understand why you are even here.

This post is very strong.And because of this post i believe devs are doing the right thing.Its not about going more pirate against these guys.U cant fight blizz like that.Ppl actualy talk about legacy servers,more than ever. 100k signed petition,internet is full of Nost articles,videos. U got to admit, that a lot attencion for a single private server.And after all this hype i dont think its good thing that Nost goes more pirate.I mean wtf we know how to fight blizz??Its easy to rage and be world revolutionary behind screen.
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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Sallerius » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:42 pm

Another post from eu.battle.net
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A Jagex dev posted a very interesting article on LinkedIn Pulse which I feel is VERY relevant to the current debate

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/building ... oided-kemp

I've linked the full text of the article below in case someone can't access the link

It’s more than three years since we had our first discussion about releasing legacy servers for RuneScape. However, we can now say that releasing Old School RuneScape was one of the best decisions we ever made. Since Old School RuneScape’s launch in February 2013 we have seen just short of seven million players log in with over two and a half million becoming members.

During that time Old School has of course faced a number of challenges, but here’s how we overcame them and how we took a version of RuneScape from 10 years ago and made it relevant for todays’ gamers.

The legacy risk

During the early discussions there were of course many concerns such as was it even possible, how long it would take, and whether there was the potential for cannibalisation of the existing RuneScape player base. We knew our players wanted legacy servers, as with most MMORPG communities they were not shy in telling us what they wanted. Even though we were quite certain about the initial surge of interest these servers would get we wanted to test this so we asked our players via a poll if they would play. When half a million of our customers said they want to play it… we kind of had to do it.

Another big question mark was whether the legacy servers would have any longevity. To manage this risk a small team of three people was put together to manage the servers and community until the initial interest had died down, at which time resource could be reallocated.

The risk seemed low, allocated resources could all be temporary, and with half a million players saying they would like to try it, the risk of cannibalisation was outweighed by the potential new customers. At the very least Old School RuneScape would be a quick nostalgia hit for disenfranchised players.

With legacy servers comes legacy technical debt

Once Old School RuneScape had launched it quickly became apparent that the community wanted game updates. However, initially we were very limited in what we could deliver. Since RuneScape as a game had progressed during the intervening years, so had all the tools we used to develop it. We were in the unenviable position of having to recreate all the tools we used to develop the game back in 2007 so we could update it. At no point had anyone thought, “We ought to keep all these old versions of the development tools just in case.” I mean why would they?

The lack of development tools was not our only technical debt, we had to rework anti-cheating software, optimise areas of the code, and fix some pretty major bugs for a second time.

Community tribalism

Something which should not really surprise anyone is that there was a rivalry between the communities of the Old School RuneScape and RuneScape. Over time this rivalry increased with the Old School community taking the stance of being purist, and the RuneScape community positioning themselves as progressive.

Although the Old School community saw themselves as purists they still wanted change, so to ensure the rate of change was acceptable to those players we allowed them to vote on every update that happens to the game. If 75% of those voting did not agree, the update didn’t happen. This gave a very strong sense of ownership of the game to the community; they were in control.

What was a surprise was that the tribalism shown by the community started to manifest itself among the development teams. As the small team was left to get on with things they developed their own ways of making things happen without relying on other teams. Although this self-sufficiency might be much sought over by many people, it has a hampering effect when it has to fit into companywide objectives and strategic planning across products.

It came to a point where the Old School RuneScape team needed more integration into the wider RuneScape studio. This was achieved by creating stronger relationships between staff and line managers that traversed different teams, as well as including the Old School team in more of the studio level decisions.

Game positioning

After about six months we started to see player numbers settle and we could see that very few players migrated between Old School RuneScape and RuneScape. What we were not seeing was one game cannibalising the other, so we wanted to understand why a player would play one game and not the other.

Through a series of surveys and data gathering from the game servers we saw there were some distinct reasons why people played Old School RuneScape. The three key reasons were the old combat system (which was changed in the main game in 2012) the grinding of levels, and the straightforward membership monetisation model. This made it very easy to position Old School RuneScape as complementarily to RuneScape and give us a very clear direction of where the game could go. More importantly, it identified areas we could branch into much more effectively than we could have done with RuneScape on its own.

For example, the old combat system leant itself well to PvP combat, which in turn allowed us to take our first steps into the eSports market last month with considerable success.

When legacy becomes THE legacy

Although the initial impact of legacy servers on RuneScape was expected to be short and sweet, it has grown into a major part of Jagex’s business. The Old School team is now five times the size it was when it started and has more members than the launch period, showing it can reach out to a wider market than the initial audience.

The modernisation of RuneScape meant tensions increased between the traditionalist and progressive RuneScape player base. However, Old School RuneScape gave the traditionalists a safe home and allowed for the continued modernisation of RuneScape without alienating a key part of our player base.

There have been challenges in overcoming the technical debt that suddenly appeared as well as ensuring that the product sits well within a wider business. However, it offered something our existing games did not offer and has allowed us to start expanding the RuneScape franchise into new areas such as eSports and streaming.

By keeping the risk of legacy servers low and being focused on how they can grow the franchise, this adventure has just started.



To summarize it, Runescape as a whole had seven million players log in and over 2.5 million become Members after the launch of Legacy servers in 2013.

They also understood the risk that one version of the game could cannibalize the other version, and realized that didn't happen with OSRS and RS3, but rather that Old School Runescape actually complimented the existing game, and allowed progressive players to enjoy the current content, and more purist players to enjoy the content of OSRS.
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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Pottu » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:54 pm

Enjurbn wrote:Don't you understand what he meant? Really? It had nothing to do with you making profit, rather than with the Nostalrius project being illegal from the day 1 in the eyes of Blizzard, you knew damn well their stance on private servers when you started it, that they are against it.

The poster claimed that Nostalrius stole code from Blizzard. That is not true. As for the illegality of private servers, well, they are in a grey zone. Making a profit off of Blizzard's intellectual property is of course illegal and that has been confirmed in a US court. However, offering a gaming service that Blizzard does not offer, in a non-profit manner, has not been deemed illegal - to my knowledge - in any court of law. We wished to offer as authentic vanilla server as possible with our limited resources, to all players whether returners or new comers. We did not want to contest Blizzard's trademark or copyright in the first place and, aside from few exceptions, they have previously turned a blind eye towards non-profit private servers. I hope you can see the difference.
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Re: First official update since Nostalrius shutdown

by Sallerius » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:57 pm

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/720983179083931648 Mr. Kern, former lead World of Warcraft developer during Vanilla
https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/721009051962703872, how about this?
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