What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[Noselacri]

No, we didn't start the insults - the trolls who spewed lie after lie after lie did.

You started it right off the bat on page one and haven't stopped at any point.

I have to assume that this is all some kind of elaborate trolling effort. Nobody can be this deluded. You've spent this entire thread doing the very thing you're accusing people of doing. It's utterly impossible to reason with you even a little bit, you're completely insane. You literally are a crazy person incapable of any sort of meaningful dialogue, you're entirely bereft of any sense.

[Theloras]

No, we didn't start the insults - the trolls who spewed lie after lie after lie did.

You started it right off the bat on page one and haven't stopped at any point.

Noselacri - I dare you to show me one example in which I have lied in this thread or on the Nostalrius forums as a whole.

For the record, these are the two posts which I wrote on page 1 of this particular thread:

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Re: What are the best classes & specs for each different rol
by Theloras » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:24 am

Ghostly wrote:
CecilJohn wrote:
What about paladin for tank?

No. In vanilla, the only class capable of tanking is warrior. Druids can do it in lower tiers, but it's still a handicap. Paladin doesnt even have a taunt.

This literally made me /lol so loud that my wife came out from the bedroom to ask, "What was so funny?"
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 25#p137756

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Re: What are the best classes & specs for each different rol
by Theloras » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:41 am

@Ghostly

First off, 75% of the raid bosses are immune to taunt to begin with...

And secondly, both Challenging Shout and Taunt can and do miss since they are actually considered spells and thus require +Spell Hit to work properly which is why Warrior Tier 3 Dreadnaught armour has the following set bonus:

4 pieces: Improves your chance to hit with Taunt and Challenging Shout by 5%.
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?itemset=523

And warriors would use this trinket in combination with the T3 Dreadnaught set bonus in order to 100% make sure that taunt would work in the Four Horsemen fight:

Nat Pagle's Broken Reel
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 60
Use: Increases the chance to hit with spells by 10% for 15 sec. (cooldown 1.25 min)

By valkyr on 11/25/2006 (Patch 1.12.2)
Makes Four Horsemen a joke. 4 piece Dreadnaught takes spell resist chance down to 11%, so with this you have a 1% chance to resist taunt.

The cooldown is only 1.25 minutes, so by the time the tank has to get to the next station, its cooldown is up. The fight is certainly possible to do without it, just makes learning/executing the transitions a whole hell of a lot easier.
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19947

/thread
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 25#p137776

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And here is the link to what you said earlier was "and, in another thread, that retribution is the best DPS spec in the game".

In this page, I stated that a Paladin with Force Reactive Disk is the best AoE damage dealer in the game and provided screenshots/videos to prove it. I go on to further state and show evidence of me coming anywhere from 7-14 in multiple different raid boss encounters in all end game raid instance. Likewise, I said that a Reckoning Paladin had the deadliest melee strike in the game (aka a Reck Bomb).

Never have I ever said that a Paladin was as you put it, "the best DPS spec in the game"

So tell me Noselacri , who is the one telling lies here?

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 80#p152196

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The top skilled/geared Ret/Reck Paladins and I back on Peenix ran our own PvP guild, ran our own premades and wrecked face every time so much that an enemy flag carrier who I had just 1shot logged onto his Alliance toon to congratulate me:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img819/7909/vdcr.jpg

Or this instance when I 1Shot a Bear Druid EFC:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img538/3600/3Yz8TI.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img538/9677/ecW5pq.jpg
"I said in chat I'm not even mad that was impressive"

My other Ret/Reck Paladins and I would do this time after time after time and we loved every minute of it.

Is a Holy Paladin in full T3 an asset to a remade? Yes, of course they are and you won't get an argument from me about that.

But so is an equally Naxx/AQ40 geared Ret/Reck Paladin as our burst can punch through and be just as deadly:

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/1525/gp0o.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img20/1448/6nrs.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img15/7706/rbsf.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img845/9016/70ab7.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img822/2230/ak63.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img837/5331/wd2y.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img834/9605/5gkjb.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img539/9346/dXr306.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img673/6338/WMeKHv.jpg

As you can see, Reck Bombs 1Shotting people are hardly rare or gimmicky

PS - here is me 1Shotting a full T3 Paladin:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img661/756/RKM2r7.jpg
- top kek for me!
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 30#p140219

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Ihealwpvp wrote:
paladins are the lowest melee dps spec in the game. there is a price to pay for being the most defensive class.


who happen to also have the deadliest melee attack in the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX2JEKVn-U4
- pre nerf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQzxgkXRA1Y
- post nerf
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 40#p140681

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Here is what 1337 Hunter DPS is compared to LOLRET:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img855/4567/hk4p.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img62/7134/vzxp.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img818/5861/4rcm.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img856/790/m3az.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img826/3377/jky0.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img5/3115/k53b.jpg
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 70#p143342

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Force Reactive Disk
Binds when equipped
Off Hand Shield
2548 Armor
44 Block
+11 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Requires Engineering (300)
Equip: When the shield blocks it releases an electrical charge that damages all nearby enemies. This also has a chance of damaging the shield.
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=18168

^^^This one item allows a Paladin to do more DPS than any caster when AoE tanking^^^

To help illuminate and educate you, let me go screenshot by screenshot:

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/222/zkw7.jpg
- this fight shows the BWL Suppression Room and Broodlord fight
- Meista (geared/skilled Warlock) - Pascas (geared/skilled Warlock) - Coldstone (geared/skilled Mage) - Kriv (geared/skilled Warlock)
- these are the casters who TRIED to keep up with my AoE dmg but couldn't
- because I was AoE tanking the entire encounter with Consecration, Force Reactive Disk and Reflective damage
- I don't need a single target taunt or AoE taunt when I'm putting out over 4K DPS
- I still ended up with just under 1300 DPS over the entire encounter even though I ended up HEALING the tanks during the actual Broodlord fight

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img537/5531/dgSRfX.jpg
- again right in the thick of things and showing 4K DPS while AoE tanking spider packs in Naxx
- Mediv (geared/skilled Mage), Rollinpapers (geared/skilled Mage), Coldstone (geared/skilled Mage), Pascas (geared/skilled Warlock
- the healers focused their heals on me

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img913/5044/QIF0pz.jpg
- DOUBLE PALADIN POWAH
- Cysthen (geared/skilled PROT Paladin with me as RETRIBUTION in his group to feed him Sanctity Aura
- the two of us combined to do 55% of the total raid dmg in these AoE fights in AQ40

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img540/3186/j0iMGu.jpg
- again double Paladin AoE with Cysthen and I in BWL gauntlet

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img540/4845/gJwH44.jpg
- aber AoE dmg/tanking with Cysthen and I in MC on Garr
- he tanked all of the adds while I AoE'd them down

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/7250/6gc6.jpg
- last but not least here is me wiping an entire Horde raid at Light's Hope Chapel with over +700 spell dmg and only Consecration ticking 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIixkkOmms
- this video shows the AoE and Reflective dmg potential we can put out
- this was done without Consecration to show exactly that
- plus I was PvP Reck spec when I made this video and didn't want to respec

As far as how things are here on Nostalrius, I AoE tank all 5/10 man dungeons fine and even end up top DPS while doing so even though I don't have Force Reactive Disk here yet.

Consecration + Retribution Aura + Grenades/Holy Water = lots of dead mobs
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 40#p140076

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Paladins out agro Warriors in Single Target fights by a significant margin and absolutely blow warriors threat out of the water in any AoE fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXJNCdIJ6dI
- Prot Warrior with Force Reactive Disk doing LOL AoE dmg and threat with the DPS having to wait almost 20 seconds before doing their dmg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy1uk0k73YA
- another Prot Warrior with Force Reactive Disk doing LOL AoE dmg and threat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rFEMKiRxKw
- Paladin with Tier 2 and 2.5 gear with Force Reactive Disk = meni dead mobs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPeUCinVckA
- here is Killerduki himself rounding up a large number of mobs with Retribution Aura while wearing full BiS Paladin tanking gear and then mowing them down with max Rank Consecration = meni meni meni dead mobs and he's not even using Force reactive Disk lol
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 20#p137890

[Theloras]

FYI - here are three examples of me admitting I was a wrong about something in WoW - again I'm not advertising another project but since my word is in question here on Nostalrius, I feel it necessary to point these out and defend my reputation:

[SPELL] [PALADIN] Blessing of Sacrifice has spell pushback
https://github.com/FeenixServerProject/ ... ssues/4029

[SPELL] [PALADIN] Eye for an Eye - spell damage scaling is off
https://github.com/FeenixServerProject/ ... ssues/4472

Core.Items - Thick Obsidian Breastplate proc should not give Resistance to Holy school of magic
https://github.com/FeenixServerProject/ ... ssues/4543

On the other hand, here is a shining example of something I proved which EVERYONE thought was completely impossible to have occurred during Vanilla and for which multiple trolls tried to derail and flame me for:

[Spell] [PALADIN] Seal Twisting in Vanilla (SoC + SoR)
https://github.com/FeenixServerProject/ ... ssues/4025

Not to mention the several dozen other Paladin bugs that I personally researched, wrote up and provided evidence to prove that they should be fixed by the Devs there.

TLDR - Am I perfect in all things WoW and IRL?

No, of course not and like anyone else, I make mistakes from time to time. But I do admit when I have erred especially when it was an honest mistake or misunderstanding.

Theloras

[smilkovpetko]

@Awkwardlol sorry if i have hurt your feelings about specific boss which is called Chromaggus on some Privacy "modified" server which is called Peenix where Holy Resistance should not be counted like shown on the video from Retail but in fact in Peenix Holy resistance is working wrong . and i have missconfused it with "vulnerability" and i have been mistaken .

This doesn't make me worse Paladin as i have already Tanked that Boss in Peenix as Paladin Maintank .
So please don't bother me anymore with Modification which are not Blizzlike and sorry for hurting your feelings about "vulnerability" where i was wrong but i wasn't wrong about "holy resistance" and "bugged" which is not blizzlike or retail. .

Thank you and don't bother me anymore with bullshits like this . Good luck.

before you continue nagging me go ahead and ask apologize by other 5 trolls who said the opposite of you regarding this boss and which i have countered them for this .

[Undertanker]

It's fairly rare to see someone get so perfectly destroyed in an internet argument. Normally, when proven so resoundingly wrong as these two paladin fanatics have been, the losing party has the decency to go away and put an end to the embarrassment. Instead they continue to provide fuel for their own pyre.

.......

In short, they obviously have personality disorders that you're triggering, and it might be best to let this thread die out before these deluded, self-glorifying crazies go into full meltdown.

How are they on a "losing side"? Can pally tank? Yes. Best AOE tank, best TPS off tank due to not needing to take damage for rage. Warrior is best single target hard hitting boss tank.

You confuse the ignorance of the masses as the winning side, because more people have a tunnel vision mentality. I (a warrior) have given great information on available pally tank loot, where they excel, why even on a tauntable boss 1 can be used.

Read the thread with an open mind and not the last two pages and attempt to contribute in a positive manner

[Noselacri]

Nobody has said "paladins aren't good at AoE tanking." The point is that this is literally not required in a single place throughout the entire game (obviously, as the class is available only to alliance), and that paladins are bad at all other forms of tanking due to their weak survivability, lack of cooldowns, lack of taunt, and lack of tank itemization on their gear. This is a self-evident truth of vanilla WoW, completely indisputable.

Two people have spent the better part of thirty pages vehemently denying this and flinging non-stop insults at everybody who has criticized the spec, then have the audacity to take some bizarre, deluded moral high ground when people respond in kind. That's the losing argument.

Most people know the many weaknesses of paladin tanks and therefore decide not to invest time (their own or their guild's) into a flawed spec that's useful in very few places and required in none. How this can turn into such a long debate is perplexing, but then most of it is Theloras and smilkowhatever repeating themselves and being idiots over and over, and justifiably getting called out on it every time.

[smilkovpetko]

Nobody has said "paladins aren't good at AoE tanking." The point is that this is literally not required in a single place throughout the entire game (obviously, as the class is available only to alliance), and that paladins are bad at all other forms of tanking due to their weak survivability, lack of cooldowns, lack of taunt, and lack of tank itemization on their gear. This is a self-evident truth of vanilla WoW, completely indisputable.

Two people have spent the better part of thirty pages vehemently denying this and flinging non-stop insults at everybody who has criticized the spec, then have the audacity to take some bizarre, deluded moral high ground when people respond in kind. That's the losing argument.

Most people know the many weaknesses of paladin tanks and therefore decide not to invest time (their own or their guild's) into a flawed spec that's useful in very few places and required in none. How this can turn into such a long debate is perplexing, but then most of it is Theloras and smilkowhatever repeating themselves and being idiots over and over, and justifiably getting called out on it every time.

and that paladins are bad at all other forms of tanking due to their weak survivability, lack of cooldowns, lack of taunt, and lack of tank itemization on their gear.

No shit ,..... our threats make taunt pointless , we have lay of hands , we have enormous block value (increased by 30%) , we have extra avoidance , we have extra block rate and we have bubble to remove deadly debuffs. also there is perfect gear itemization . there is even link for that .....
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13492

Two people have spent the better part of thirty pages vehemently denying this and flinging non-stop insults at everybody who has criticized the spec,

o rly ?! . by posting evidences of me tanking as Paladin Raid Bosses?! . ..

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 7949_o.jpg

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 8473_o.jpg

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 8017_o.jpg

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 6300_o.jpg

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 0711_o.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovC3fkojlE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXV1lqIJr9w

Watch my survivability on the video ...

Maybe you are deluded person that deny this!? .

Most people know the many weaknesses of paladin tanks and therefore decide not to invest time (their own or their guild's) into a flawed spec that's useful in very few places and required in none.

Most people also do lack of knowledge about Paladins due the denial of missinformed and stupid trolls which talk bullshits based on nonsense about Paladin Tanks . like you talk like delusional that know something about them but have 0 knowledge or never tanked with it.

[Undertanker]

To OP: Please look past the cookie cutters. Understand this, a perfect raid setup has utility.

Mages, 1 maybe two in guild have winters chill, to give a buff, and they lose dps for the greater good of the other arcane/frost mages.

Warlocks, 1 maybe two in guild have imp phasing for buffing tanks, but you lose dps for the greater cause, then other locks take 0/2 imp health stone, 1/2 and another takes 2/2 so people and def tanks xan have more than one.... For the greater good.

Druids, 1 maybe ywo in guild stack only +heals and go natures swiftness spec and also have to put HoT on tank. Lowers their mana efficency but gives tanks super good HoT while other druids get 10 mana cost reduction and get some mp5 items.

Priest, 1 like 1 lightwell priest as positioning fights this is super good, or if people have to los reset a buff, there is a well for them. 1 shadow priest afyer 16 debuffs. 1 Disc that has imp shield for tanks and power infusion that is situationally used on a mage or healer. Others go disc / holly.

Hunters, true shot aura for 3 hunters and go for 8/8 T2, other hunters stack agil gear and go survival (a bit later).

Warriors, 1 Tps impale spec tank, 1 imp demo shout tank, 1 others fury, can bring 1 hybrid MS proc spec for healing bosses and a decent 3rd tank.

Pally. 1 proc holly for Sanctuary buff, 2nd/3rd tank and aoe tank. Heals/dispells with healing set. 2 get kings rest holly, others get imp.might holy.

Rogues, 1.hemo later on, and a mix of combat dagg/sword. Getting 1 or 2 ideally with imp gouge for certainfights.

So if you and your guilds demand some cookie spec cause you wipe.regardless, maybe they wipe.because they are not takinflg advantage of talents available to buff raid, debuff boss, protect each other and make annoying parts of raids much easier.

Oh and if you think wiping 40 strong is because of gear/spec/heals per sec, it isnt. This game is all positioning and math. Dead = 0 dps. You can all continue to.compete with each other on.dps heal meters, or start helping each other out more with buffs, debuffs and the works. A few will benifit greatly but just be because you are not at the top.of the meter, doesnt mean your contributions got overlooked.

[Awkwardlol]

@Awkwardlol sorry if i have hurt your feelings about specific boss which is called Chromaggus on some Privacy "modified" server which is called Peenix where Holy Resistance should not be counted like shown on the video from Retail but in fact in Peenix Holy resistance is working wrong . and i have missconfused it with "vulnerability" and i have been mistaken .

This doesn't make me worse Paladin as i have already Tanked that Boss in Peenix as Paladin Maintank .
So please don't bother me anymore with Modification which are not Blizzlike and sorry for hurting your feelings about "vulnerability" where i was wrong but i wasn't wrong about "holy resistance" and "bugged" which is not blizzlike or retail. .

Thank you and don't bother me anymore with bullshits like this . Good luck.

before you continue nagging me go ahead and ask apologize by other 5 trolls who said the opposite of you regarding this boss and which i have countered them for this .

Hahahahahaha, lieing, deflecting, changing the subject, all the great traits of a delusional person

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Chromaggus

Shimmer

Chromaggus' skin can "shimmer", changing his vulnerability to a particular school of magic. If you have CTRA it will help you know when his vulnerability changes and identify it when it is found.

(The only fight which does not cite which ability is excluded) unlike Ossirian this Boss variate within all Schools (including holy weakness) .

Now you Talk about Chromaggus . ... Imagine the Holy Threats when get Weak by Holy Spells!?!?!?!>... That would go beyond your illusion in this fight. using 250 spell damage.

Chromaggus' skin can "shimmer", changing his vulnerability to a particular school of magic. If you have CTRA it will help you know when his vulnerability changes and identify it when it is found.

This can make our Threats 2 times more than your Warrior Threats if we are "Equal" geared.

Now you talk about Abilities and Threats.... Warrior can dream to make that "700" Threat each second or two when his Rage Starving killing him.

I am expecting Evidence for this that doesn't work with holy. ... if you don't bring me single evidence for this particular Boss i get proved that you are the clueless here.

Wowiki.com says in which fight Holy is removed , excluded or gained....

In this case there is no pure evidence or cite about Chromaggus Schools if it exclude holy or not.

Yeah, he was never talking about Holy Vulnerability, it was always about Holy Resistances that isn't even the same thing guys.

Nice try on the amazing shit post, once again, you lost clueless person. Also, this isn't about hating on Prot Paladins (I don't care), please save yourself before it's too late, Killerduki the Clueless (The Private Server Hero)

[smilkovpetko]

Nice try on the amazing shit post, once again, you lost clueless person. Also, this isn't about hating on Prot Paladins (I don't care), please save yourself before it's too late, Killerduki the Clueless (The Private Server Hero)

That comment brough me to chunk my head of reading mentally ill kid who won world championship that never end which gave him medal of being biggest retard.

See Theloras why i don't give a shit about the stupid trolls?! . . In topic where we discuss about Protection Paladin he come up with bullshits about specific bossfight on modified privacy server.

The next time instead apologize i will feel free to give him candy's for being biggest kid in privacy servers.

Just to remind that 5 other people have even talk/mention about chromaggus resistance before even i say anything about it, but this kid decide to pull out all on me.. and said nothing about them.

I am happy that i will keep him on foe so i wont disturb same as i did toward some other trolls.