Thunderfury Research & Testing [Proc, Threat, Elemental]

[Armilus]

Snip

Good stuff.

One thing about your test for the elemental damage. It is possible that the damage is there but it is being treated as physical damage. To test this you could note your expected auto attack damage on your character sheet then find a bunch of mobs with the same armor value and attack them 30-40 times. Currently one of the UI functions is bugged and letting players see the armor value of mobs, you can use a macro for it or the addon I wrote (before I realized it shouldn't be working).

If we know the armor value of your target, the expected damage and the min/max auto attack damage after 30-40 hits we can probably verify if the damage is there but being treated as physical or not present at all.

[Nano]

Great post Grave. I appreciate the thoroughness of this work. Post a bugreport on the tracker with some sources and I'll retest it all myself to confirm.

[TaurenRogue]

can we fix it to be main hand only ? i mean its in the patch notes

[Grave]

Good stuff.

One thing about your test for the elemental damage. It is possible that the damage is there but it is being treated as physical damage. To test this you could note your expected auto attack damage on your character sheet then find a bunch of mobs with the same armor value and attack them 30-40 times. Currently one of the UI functions is bugged and letting players see the armor value of mobs, you can use a macro for it or the addon I wrote (before I realized it shouldn't be working).

If we know the armor value of your target, the expected damage and the min/max auto attack damage after 30-40 hits we can probably verify if the damage is there but being treated as physical or not present at all.

• Elemental Damage Test #2
  For the purpose of the test mentioned above, I went ahead and found the aforementioned macro and mobs with armor values across min-max melee damage range on character pane. I've linked them below.
  
  Parameter: To check if the Elemental Damage component (+16 - 30) added to the physical damage of the character.
  
  Analysis:
  In total I did about ~100 hits, they were all pretty similar. None of them went above the maximum dmg. Please note some of them did crit for over the maximum damage, ony neck did not help reduce my crit chance by much. (No, I refuse to unequip!)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Conclusion: No damage is added on top of the TF damage of 44-115. Therefore the elemental damage is not built into the physical damage of the weapon. Here is a picture of the melee damage with and without TF. Basically Damage: 86+44 - 88+115.
  

Great post Grave. I appreciate the thoroughness of this work. Post a bugreport on the tracker with some sources and I'll retest it all myself to confirm.

Thank you. However I did this test on request from Zetox who is preparing the bug report, and as you may have noted by his original post in this thread, it'll be quite well-sourced.

[St0rfan]

Good stuff.

One thing about your test for the elemental damage. It is possible that the damage is there but it is being treated as physical damage. To test this you could note your expected auto attack damage on your character sheet then find a bunch of mobs with the same armor value and attack them 30-40 times. Currently one of the UI functions is bugged and letting players see the armor value of mobs, you can use a macro for it or the addon I wrote (before I realized it shouldn't be working).

If we know the armor value of your target, the expected damage and the min/max auto attack damage after 30-40 hits we can probably verify if the damage is there but being treated as physical or not present at all.

• Elemental Damage Test #2
  For the purpose of the test mentioned above, I went ahead and found the aforementioned macro and mobs with armor values across min-max melee damage range on character pane. I've linked them below.
  
  Parameter: To check if the Elemental Damage component (+16 - 30) added to the physical damage of the character.
  
  Analysis:
  In total I did about ~100 hits, they were all pretty similar. None of them went above the maximum dmg. Please note some of them did crit for over the maximum damage, ony neck did not help reduce my crit chance by much. (No, I refuse to unequip!)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Conclusion: No damage is added on top of the TF damage of 44-115. Therefore the elemental damage is not built into the physical damage of the weapon. Here is a picture of the melee damage with and without TF. Basically Damage: 86+44 - 88+115.
  

Great post Grave. I appreciate the thoroughness of this work. Post a bugreport on the tracker with some sources and I'll retest it all myself to confirm.

Thank you. However I did this test on request from Zetox who is preparing the bug report, and as you may have noted by his original post in this thread, it'll be quite well-sourced.

Nicely done. As a suggestion. In addtion to using procwatch, there's also the nifty addon called combatstats in which you can see all sources of damage you produce and (maybe) the elemetal damage too.

[smilkovpetko]

nice explanation

Blessing of Protection makes you immune on white hits only .
Specials and any Elemental damage should still hit the target.

Divine Shield and Divine Protection are only ones that can't be hit by this Weapon or any School.

[Plask]

Thunderfury - Live Testing on 16/11/2015.

Analysis:

The Paladin, Avise, uses "Blessing of Protection", all auto attacks become immune, elemental damage that is supposed to occur per auto attack does not occur. You can see the TF procs and hits him through BoP, but there is no elemental damage component in brackets for each separate auto attack.

Conclusion: Thunderfury is bugged, or elemental damage component on weapons in general is bugged. This bug reduces the weapon damage (and consequently threat) by its full elemental damage component range.[/list]

As Zetox wrote in his original post about elemental attacks:

May 5, 2006 - Elemental damage isn’t shown on an extra line in the combat log. But added onto the existing physical damage, and only shown separating if the white physical damage portion blocked or immuned.
Q: “The cool part of the weapon, putting it in the family of those such as Thunderfury, the Iceblade Hacker, etc., is that it has elemental damage added.
"Awesome," I thought, "can't be mitigated."
But checking through the combat log showed no frost damage that I could see.”
Q2: “Also on the Dark Shades in Scholo (the Occultists that turn physical immune) it would show a tiny amount of damage each swing with the "Immune" message” by Concillian
Source

Apparently, there is no such thing as elemental damage showing up in combat logs or visually and its only added to your normal attacks. That could explain why you don't see it visually (on this server atleast). Did you check 100% that your attacks didn't deal a very small amount of damage each hit? Don't look at numbers look at the HP and see if it changes because I seen similiar behavior for thorium spike etc on Feenix (it dealt damage but was "invisible")

Also you cannot conclude that the elemental damage doesn't work at all in your test. As mentioned above elemental damage is added to your normal damage. In what way have you tested that this is actually not the case? All I can see from this is that elemental damage isn't visually shown when the target is immune to physical attacks.

Edit: And by reading the thread I see that already 3 people mentioned it )

[Grave]

Also you cannot conclude that the elemental damage doesn't work at all in your test. As mentioned above elemental damage is added to your normal damage. In what way have you tested that this is actually not the case? All I can see from this is that elemental damage isn't visually shown when the target is immune to physical attacks.

Edit: And by reading the thread I see that already 3 people mentioned it )

Scroll up 2 posts, read "paramater" of test #2.

And if you checked Zetox's sources, there is a clear video showing the elemental damage appearing visually through Blessing of Protection. Eviscerate 2. If it is "invisible" here than that's a separate bug.

Nano says the elemental damage is added to the physical damage of the weapon. My numbers in the test #2 don't support this. Only the maximum physical damage of the weapon (excluding Ele Dmg) is reached.

[Setup]

Nano replied on the bug tracker, noting:

Elemental damage is added into the weapon already however the additional elemental damage is being counted as physical and will require a comprehensive fix to all elemental damage as it's an overarching issue, not just one that applies to Thunderfury.

Hopefully they get this sorted out before we want to use the elemental damage on the Iceblade Hacker for Viscidus.

[St0rfan]

Nano replied on the bug tracker, noting:

Elemental damage is added into the weapon already however the additional elemental damage is being counted as physical and will require a comprehensive fix to all elemental damage as it's an overarching issue, not just one that applies to Thunderfury.

Hopefully they get this sorted out before we want to use the elemental damage on the Iceblade Hacker for Viscidus.

Exactly my thought aswell. I have been scouring old EJ-posts on the same issue before Viscidus.