What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[Armilus]

I got my math showing warriors do around 700 TPS

Let's see it please.

[smilkovpetko]

Because you are trying to ignoring things and dance with trolling attempts ill remind you:

I got my math showing warriors do around 700 TPS

Let's see it please.

by sidesprang » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:14 pm
If fight is 360 Seconds = 100 k Threats by Melee Swings (Chromaggus) , if fight is 520 Seconds (Neffarian) = 150 k Threats by Melee Swings. (Excluded by all Attack power Gain or MP5 increased or other abilities used than melee swings) . @Preraid Gear.

You do know 100k threat by 360 seconds is only 277 TPS right ? And its not very good, if you wanna do the full math again feel free to do it but last time you did you only showed paladins doing 342 TPS, which is not very good either. I got my math showing warriors do around 700 TPS ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =849630167 ) in this spreadsheet. Its with a warrior doing 200 DPS and using alcors. Which is really not that special and you dont require any buffs to do it, fully buffed you can do around 400-500 DPS and 950-1.1k TPS.

But as I said feel free to come up with anything that will show you do anything remotely close to this over time, remember warrior threat is the same from start to finish so this is all sustained.


If Warriors was doing more Threats :

How come i got almost same Threats as that Warrior (not even tanking boss)

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 6407_o.jpg

Or you deny this even ?! especially when i do tank this boss would give me 2/3 more threats that i have.

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 6300_o.jpg


I'm not interested in single screens that do not show your TPS, aka threat per second, NOT OVERALL THREAT. They do not prove how much TPS, aka threat per second you can do. Thats all that matters in this discussion.



37k threats Snelf Warrior server BiS T3 Geared (legendary sword+ 2x ap buffs )
VS
31k threats killerduki (Preraid - 100 Spell Damage only)

1. I showed you in my example with a warrior with alcors doing 200 DPS he would do around 700 TPS, that is 42000 threat a minute (granted you can do more), also if he was T3 he would have access to aq20 books with should give 45 more TPS or 2700 more threat over 60 seconds.
2. I don't see any math or video backing up your claim to do 31k threat over 60 seconds, feel free to show it, does it also consider mana ? Aka are you using it all over 60 seconds or are you actually able to sustain it. Again feel free to show, but just keep in mind even if you do show it you are still not close to warrior threat levels. Feel free to do your math in whatever gear you want.

by sidesprang » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:14 pm
I got my math showing warriors do around 700 TPS

His Warrior Math
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 40#p160295
My Paladin Math
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 40#p160318

[sidesprang]

I got my math showing warriors do around 700 TPS

Let's see it please.

It's all there in the spreadsheet, man this shit was even discussed in TP warrior chat you fell asleep in class bro? :O

The threat modifiers (aka the threat they do if you don't count the dmg part) for each ability is;

Shield Slam Threat 373.00
Revenge Threat 470.00
Sunder Armor Threat 390.00
Heroic Strike Threat 216.00
Thunderfury Threat from Proc 360.00


In my example you see under Realistic rotation you can see I assume I will hit a shield slam each 6.5 seconds, a revenge each 6.5 seconds, a sunder each 3.5 seconds and that the heroic strike % is 0.98. I've tested if this is realistic on some bosses and on most bosses it is. Ragestarving was never a big issue at all.

Then you just take the threat modifier and divide it by how many times you use each ability per second, and you will get the threat you get from each ability each second.

Then you add the threat you get from the DPS, which is your DPS * 1.495 which is the warrior modifier. And you get your total threat.


Also note that threat from thunderfury is 0 on the spreadsheet, thats because AS I SAID I was using Alcors as example.

ALSO if you still think this don't make sense just look at the video I gave on nefarian, there I said I did 65000 threat in 95 seconds. Which is 684 threat per second aka pretty damn close to my math.

[smilkovpetko]

I also explained you the "realistic" version which i included spreading ticks and tps modifiers.

I didn't calculated consecration in 1 second. i calculated it each tick instead full duration . also i divided melee swings by 2 lesser due to swings speed.

so you got the calculations .

in previous calculations there was only melee swings with very minimum dmg excluded from crits and excluded from any other calculations too.

now you got my full calculation based toward your math.

There is still some stuffs missing as you mention - consumes,raid buffs etc.

[sidesprang]

Now for the flaws I can spot out in duki's math, I'm not a pala expert so maybe I say something wrong or maybe I even miss some flaws but whatever.

1. You dont account for Paladin threat modifier which should be 0.8 as the other melee classes.

2. Holy shield, does 130 damage right ? At least thats what the tooltip says, or how you get the other part? Also in your math you are assuming you are blocking an attack each second that really does not make any sense. On a normal boss you prolly get hit each 2-2,5 seconds, and then you prolly block 50% of the time with holy shield up? Meaning your holy shield will proc each 4-5 seconds. Making your calculated threat of that ability significantly lower.

3. You do the same shit with Retribution aura and Sanctuary, You wont get hit each second, and you wont block each second.

4. I see no mana calculations at all, how long will you last with this, seems pretty expensive man.

Holy shield is 1440 mana per 60 seconds
Concecration is 4237 mana per 60 seconds


I also like how in your experiment with Snelf you managed 31K threat in a minute but suddenly now you are saying you can do 60K threat in a minute.

[smilkovpetko]

Now for the flaws I can spot out in duki's math, I'm not a pala expert so maybe I say something wrong or maybe I even miss some flaws but whatever.

1. You dont account for Paladin threat modifier which should be 0.8 as the other melee classes.

2. Holy shield, does 130 damage right ? At least thats what the tooltip says, or how you get the other part? Also in your math you are assuming you are blocking an attack each second that really does not make any sense. On a normal boss you prolly get hit each 2-2,5 seconds, and then you prolly block 50% of the time with holy shield up? Meaning your holy shield will proc each 4-5 seconds. Making your calculated threat of that ability significantly lower.

3. You do the same shit with Retribution aura and Sanctuary, You wont get hit each second, and you wont block each second.

4. I see no mana calculations at all, how long will you last with this, seems pretty expensive man.

Holy shield is 1440 mana per 60 seconds
Concecration is 4237 mana per 60 seconds


I also like how in your experiment with Snelf you managed 31K threat in a minute but suddenly now you are saying you can do 60K threat in a minute.

1. Paladin and Warrior are not in same but my modifier was based on each second (if you want do it on your 0.8) take my calculations and re do em .

2. (since you mentioned alcor) i mentioned my preraid SP . Holy Shield is 130 Each Tick + the SP coefficient.

Now since you pointed Revenge calculations - i also responded in the same way as you did for that Ability.

3. Retribution aura apparently in server work for every single hit (even if it is avoided) .

4. Same as you didn't do Rage Calculations too.

About Snelf - Everything used there was Based toward bugs like "consecration that didn't even scale with ap" and target which was excluded Holy Shield (since it was elemental that couldn't be blocked).

Also remember he was full T3 vs Preraid Paladin.

[sidesprang]

1. There is no modifier based on each second, you make no sense here. And no im not gonna do any paladin calculations.

2. Nice ignoring of the blatant error you made and just focus on the minor detail good fking job.

3. Even so you wont get hit each second, bosses don't attack that fast.

4. I wrote that I've tested if my assumptions if that rotation was realistic or not was correct or not and it was. Most bosses you wont be ragestarved and you can heroic strike each swing.

Don't understand what you mean with revenge calculations, you think revenge wont be up like 95% of the time when you need it? We got shield block which makes us parry / dodge / block guaranteed each time we use it, aka we can use revenge.

[smilkovpetko]

1. There is no modifier based on each second, you make no sense here. And no im not gonna do any paladin calculations.

2. Nice ignoring of the blatant error you made and just focus on the minor detail good fking job.

3. Even so you wont get hit each second, bosses don't attack that fast.

4. I wrote that I've tested if my assumptions if that rotation was realistic or not was correct or not and it was. Most bosses you wont be ragestarved and you can heroic strike each swing.

Don't understand what you mean with revenge calculations, you think revenge wont be up like 95% of the time when you need it? We got shield block which makes us parry / dodge / block guaranteed each time we use it, aka we can use revenge.

1. There is no modifier based on each second, you make no sense here. And no im not gonna do any paladin calculations.

Our Threats are not like Warriors . Our Threats are based toward Damage. (1 holy dmg = 1.9 Threat , 1 white dmg = 1 Threat) . that how paladin work. (only holy shield gives extra 20% more)

3. Even so you wont get hit each second, bosses don't attack that fast.

That is how you calculated your Rage.


4. I wrote that I've tested if my assumptions if that rotation was realistic or not was correct or not and it was. Most bosses you wont be ragestarved and you can heroic strike each swing.

Check my Calculation and now Check the Screenshot i Gave :

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 6407_o.jpg

(exclude my calculations from holy shield,retribution aura,sanctuary blessing) .

calculate with consecration,judgement,melee swings (sor) . which i already have mention about it (number 1).

See if i am different or not ?.

(your video over 6.8) minutes starting with 55k Threats.

57540 x 3 (times major mana/demonic runes) = 172620 + The Oom Parts where i rely on Melee Swings (excluded all return dmg and holy shield).

(now see how far my calculations are from Screenshot i did in Neffarian as offtank. (based toward starting time of the video you shown)

[smilkovpetko]

Or the Precise Math :

102240 by Swings (according to your "TPS" based on each Second) .

34920 by Consecration (2 times mana consumes)

12420 By Judges (2 times mana consumes)

149580 (according to your "TPS" based on each Second) .

149580 Threats i did over 6 Minutes as Offtank (where i excluded all the Return Damage Calculations)

In which 204214 Threats you did over 6 Minutes as Maintank (everything included) .

Now since we Compare Non Raid Consumes / Buffs used on my side vs Everything used on your Side. My threats would been even more than 149580.

If i was Maintanking the Boss :

Include Holy Shield and all return Damage.

Holy Shield 123120 Divide to 3 (due to Boss hits) = 41040

Retribution Aura 13680 Divide to 3 (due to Boss Hits) = 4560

Blessing of Sanctuary 23760 Divide to 3 (due to Boss Hits) = 7920

203100 Threats (on preraid without any Buffs and only with Major Mana Potion/Demonic Rune used)

203100 Threats i would do on my Preraid Gear vs 204214 you did on your Legendary Gear .

See the differences on calculations how would go .

Without Raid Buffs Calculations and Preraid Gear i could do same as you did full buffed and Legendary weap + T2 gear?.

[smilkovpetko]

If you don't even trust my Math - See the Log even:

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 46&Fight=7


20% of my dmg is white hits = 22659 = 22659 threat
80% of my dmg is holy = 90638 + RF 81574 = 172212 threat

194871 Threats as Offtank overall fight.

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 6407_o.jpg


See how much mistaken i would be ? (probably with 3-4k threats for overall fight due mistake calculation on white swings or different timers) .

You would even Deny This now?!.