What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[Charizard]

prot paladins are necessary to speedrun bwl

[smilkovpetko]

It's single-target tanking where they have issues ever since Seal of Fury and its corresponding judgement got removed in Patch 1.9.

That's why we got "Righteous Fury" that increase Threats by Holy Damage by (improved) 90%.
We also got Holy Shield which also increase Threats too by x more each block + the holy damage output.

You had Holy Shield before. Judgement of Fury used to give something like 300+ flat threat every time you did holy damage to your enemy, so you used it with Seal of Righteousness, Retribution Aura, Consecration, and Holy Shield and you would generate so much threat that you had that aggro locked down like a champ. You could also exploit Seal of Fury with Judgement of Wisdom to double your mana recovery procs since Seal of Fury's bonus threat worked by applying an extra invisible hit for threat after each autoattack. Righteous Fury just doesn't compare for single-target tanking.

How you are "pretty sure" do you have evidence please show everyone ?!. [snip] That's why you have Official Spell Damage coefficient tested and proved by retail Blizzard players during these periods.

...You completely misunderstood me, I see. Whatever, since you're not talking about the weapons and gear I thought you were, it's irrelevant.

There is a list of gear that "Paladins" can use and get the def cap if you search around.

Sure, and almost all of it goes to Warriors first, making it hard to get your hands on it. If you have a guild that's helpful in these matters, then sure, go ahead and gear it.

As for the Undertanker quote, once again, no one is disputing that Paladins can AoE tank. The question is whether they make decent main tanks in lengthy fights.

See something that you don't understand right now :

The server is created based on Patch 1.12 , all these weapons etc / spell coefficients are based on this patch. (don't need to explain further).

You had Holy Shield before. Judgement of Fury used to give something like 300+ flat threat every time you did holy damage to your enemy, so you used it with Seal of Righteousness, Retribution Aura, Consecration, and Holy Shield and you would generate so much threat that you had that aggro locked down like a champ. You could also exploit Seal of Fury with Judgement of Wisdom to double your mana recovery procs since Seal of Fury's bonus threat worked by applying an extra invisible hit for threat after each autoattack. Righteous Fury just doesn't compare for single-target tanking.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_Fury

Patch 1.9.0 (03-Jan-2006): Seal of Fury - The seal and judgement have been removed and replaced with a new self-buff, Righteous Fury, which will increase threat from holy damage.

Now since all our Threats have been convert to Holy and since "server" is based on 1.12 we do keep our spell coefficient by it.

On the further note (Weapons) , still gives Spell Damage and the requirements of "Single-target tanking" overpowered threats according to "Spell Damage" coefficient is no more than 100 Spell Damage Recommend. The threats on MainTarget will skyrock using this "100 Spell Damage" and is still 3 times more than Warrior on Maintarget.

Sure, and almost all of it goes to Warriors first, making it hard to get your hands on it. If you have a guild that's helpful in these matters, then sure, go ahead and gear it.

Since you have no clue what you talk about there is clear evidence that you have no clue about Protection Paladin Gear.

There is a List (which can be achieved) through 5mans , world drops which are clearly and obviously enough to use it on MC,BWL,AQ40 . (before AQ40 there is also gear from Zul Gurub) which is not Warrior Set.

What gear do we get from MC = Fingers as mandatory , Shoulders as optional.
What gear do we get from BWL = Trinket and Shield and Weapon as Mandatory.
What gear do we get from Onyxia = Trinket as Mandatory

This doesn't mean that "Warrior take this first" otherwise this statement is just stupid to argue because it is based on "Greedy people" who talk false informations instead what it is supposed to be.

[Aethelwulf]

See something that you don't understand right now :

The server is created based on Patch 1.12 , all these weapons etc / spell coefficients are based on this patch. (don't need to explain further).

You are an imbecile. I have no idea how you managed to arrive at such an absurd misunderstanding of my text, then I informed you that it was a misunderstanding, and I told you that this is irrelevant (ie. not a point of concern), but you continue in smugly stating basic knowledge as if somehow this scores a point. The more you persist in this stupidity, the lower my opinion of your intellect becomes. I could just as well raise an argument about how idiotic you are in trying to promote the use of Holy Paladins without even defense gear as main tanks, and it would be equally misguided and absurdly condescending.

[more rambling about spell damage coefficients after the seal of fury point]

This is utterly non-responsive tripe. My questions from the start have been very simple: How does a main-tanking Paladin output threat comparable to a Warrior and how does he avoid running out of mana while he is doing so? I have yet to see a satisfactory response to either of these points. The most I have heard, repeatedly, is how Paladins make great main tanks by presenting examples of Paladins who are just AoE tanking trash mobs and adds.

[Random crap about Paladin protection gear]

You said there was a thread, so feel free to just link it instead. If you want to talk items, at least name them. This kind of oblique reference makes it entirely too bothersome to follow what you are on about. I suspect you tend to "win" your arguments by fatiguing and dismaying the other side with half-baked information and random non-arguments that burden them with doing additional research to even guess your position as you strain their capacity to follow your reasoning, their respect for you, and their ability maintain a coherent dialogue until eventually they just give up and leave at which point you presumably declare victory as the last man standing. If you want to talk about shit, explain clearly what you are on about. Otherwise just stfu. Linking isn't hard you know.

This doesn't mean that "Warrior take this first" otherwise this statement is just stupid to argue because it is based on "Greedy people" who talk false informations instead what it is supposed to be.

...Now you're really being an idiot. Warriors maintank. This is known. Therefore warriors roll on tank gear. This is also known. Even DPS warriors might roll on tank gear, in case they have to respec and/or offtank, because this is a thing that happens. Asserting that this somehow makes the warrior a greedy liar is ridiculous.

[Handlock]

Have you guys read your own posts? What kind of personal issues lead to that sort of behaviour?

Regardless, the undeniable fact is that paladins aren't required for anything at all in vanilla, and warriors have vastly superior survivability. This makes it difficult for any guild to justify investing resources into a paladin tank who can only situationally tank select encounters where a warrior or even a feral druid could do the same job and is a much more versatile character in general.

A warrior can tank every fight in the game (not accounting for the handful of places where a druid is preferable due to shapeshifting or damage soaking). Tank gear given to a warrior gets infinitely more value than tank gear given to a paladin because it simply gets used so much more often.

On top of having no useful sets for tanking, the paladin will also miss out on non-set gear since you'd never give it to a paladin before the main tanks. Ipso facto, paladins will have even worse survivability. Guilds aren't gonna give the good tank gear to paladins until the warriors already have it.

A druid doesn't compete for the same tank gear and is therefore a preferable offtank, as well as bringing amazing utility and reasonable DPS when not tanking. Whenever there isn't anything for the paladin to tank, he becomes mostly dead weight. They don't bring utility like Innervate and Rebirth, they don't double as a DPS role whenever there's no need for their tanking.

These considerations justify excluding the inherently flawed and extremely situational paladin tank from a guild's raid team, even if they're technically better at tanking stuff like MC imps and things of that nature. Why gear up a paladin for that? It makes no sense, which is why guilds generally don't do it.

[smilkovpetko]

by Aethelwulf » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:23 pm

This is utterly non-responsive tripe. My questions from the start have been very simple: How does a main-tanking Paladin output threat comparable to a Warrior and how does he avoid running out of mana while he is doing so?

Strongest Spell Damage Weapon + spell damage enchant + spell damage elixir + spell damage oil - Judge of Crusade - Seal of Righteousness = drink coffee until the end of the fight , you do 3 times more threats than warrior .

Maximum 500 mana used which will be regenerated by whatever (major mana potion or demonic rune or blessing of wisdom) .

Simple as that.

The most I have heard, repeatedly, is how Paladins make great main tanks by presenting examples of Paladins who are just AoE tanking trash mobs and adds.

That's because we got clueless idiots who is always arguing/talking against paladin tanks when someone try to show opposite of that. (similar like you did and the next person) Both of you judging without any investigate knowledge or evidence and both of you are based on "what people said" .


You said there was a thread, so feel free to just link it instead. If you want to talk items, at least name them. This kind of oblique reference makes it entirely too bothersome to follow what you are on about. I suspect you tend to "win" your arguments by fatiguing and dismaying the other side with half-baked information and random non-arguments that burden them with doing additional research to even guess your position as you strain their capacity to follow your reasoning, their respect for you, and their ability maintain a coherent dialogue until eventually they just give up and leave at which point you presumably declare victory as the last man standing. If you want to talk about shit, explain clearly what you are on about. Otherwise just stfu. Linking isn't hard you know.

Funny enough . you could simple visit our paladin thread for that. ..

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13492

since you trashtalk i don't see any point reply you anymore seeing you talking crap things only like :

...Now you're really being an idiot. Warriors maintank. This is known. Therefore warriors roll on tank gear. This is also known. Even DPS warriors might roll on tank gear, in case they have to respec and/or offtank, because this is a thing that happens. Asserting that this somehow makes the warrior a greedy liar is ridiculous.

[Undertanker]

Why is this still a thing?

[Aethelwulf]

So, on to the mana issue, with strictly that ability rotation, you spend 450 mana every 10 seconds. A Major Mana Potion and Dark Rune will give you roughly 3K mana every 2 minutes. 450 * 12 = 5400 mana per 2 minutes. That leaves around 2400 mana used up. To cover the rest of the mana, you would need 100 mana/5 regen to keep it going. Blessing of Wisdom leaves 70 mp/5 to gear. You can shave off another 12 mp/5 with a Mageblood potion. And this is not factoring in anything like Exorcism or Consecration for bonus threat.

Now for the threat issue, I just don't see how you're getting 3X warrior threat. What's the phys/holy DPS you intend to be doing? Also, you recommend using a weapon with spell damage, but from what I can tell you would be much better served using a Thrash Blade or (ideally) Ironfoe with that setup for maximum threat. The Thrash Blade is easily obtained as a quest reward, while the Ironfoe is a 2% BoP drop from BRD's Emperor Dagran Thaurissan, so... enjoy. If you are dedicated to being a Paladin maintank though, I think Ironfoe is the best weapon to make your case, but good luck guaranteeing the drop will go to you for all the runs you will be doing.

As for tanking gear, I'm not seeing a full +140 defense come together until 1.11's Deathbone improvement. And it seems a Paladin will be having a painful time trying to gear that. Instances get competed with Warriors who are generally given priority and AH's going to burn through your money.

[smilkovpetko]

So, on to the mana issue, with strictly that ability rotation, you spend 450 mana every 10 seconds. A Major Mana Potion and Dark Rune will give you roughly 3K mana every 2 minutes. 450 * 12 = 5400 mana per 2 minutes. That leaves around 2400 mana used up. To cover the rest of the mana, you would need 100 mana/5 regen to keep it going. Blessing of Wisdom leaves 70 mp/5 to gear. You can shave off another 12 mp/5 with a Mageblood potion. And this is not factoring in anything like Exorcism or Consecration for bonus threat.

Now for the threat issue, I just don't see how you're getting 3X warrior threat. What's the phys/holy DPS you intend to be doing? Also, you recommend using a weapon with spell damage, but from what I can tell you would be much better served using a Thrash Blade or (ideally) Ironfoe with that setup for maximum threat. The Thrash Blade is easily obtained as a quest reward, while the Ironfoe is a 2% BoP drop from BRD's Emperor Dagran Thaurissan, so... enjoy. If you are dedicated to being a Paladin maintank though, I think Ironfoe is the best weapon to make your case, but good luck guaranteeing the drop will go to you for all the runs you will be doing.

As for tanking gear, I'm not seeing a full +140 defense come together until 1.11's Deathbone improvement. And it seems a Paladin will be having a painful time trying to gear that. Instances get competed with Warriors who are generally given priority and AH's going to burn through your money.

We can do this until tomorrow but i still enjoy how you continue nonsense

So, on to the mana issue, with strictly that ability rotation, you spend 450 mana every 10 seconds. A Major Mana Potion and Dark Rune will give you roughly 3K mana every 2 minutes. 450 * 12 = 5400 mana per 2 minutes. That leaves around 2400 mana used up. To cover the rest of the mana, you would need 100 mana/5 regen to keep it going. Blessing of Wisdom leaves 70 mp/5 to gear. You can shave off another 12 mp/5 with a Mageblood potion. And this is not factoring in anything like Exorcism or Consecration for bonus threat.

Starter rotation as i mention on previous post= Judgement of Crusade , Seal of Righteousness drink coffee until the end of the fight.

Maximum mana used 500 at beginning only..

Judgement of crusade refresh each swing you do so there is no point to reapply. Seal of Righteousness cost low mana and you need to use each 30 seconds ........ 30 seconds your mana will regen twice from bow.

hahahaha at you fail theory. 5400 mana used by sor .

Now for the threat issue, I just don't see how you're getting 3X warrior threat. What's the phys/holy DPS you intend to be doing? Also, you recommend using a weapon with spell damage, but from what I can tell you would be much better served using a Thrash Blade or (ideally) Ironfoe with that setup for maximum threat. The Thrash Blade is easily obtained as a quest reward, while the Ironfoe is a 2% BoP drop from BRD's Emperor Dagran Thaurissan, so... enjoy. If you are dedicated to being a Paladin maintank though, I think Ironfoe is the best weapon to make your case, but good luck guaranteeing the drop will go to you for all the runs you will be doing.

How did you conclude Trash Blade or Ironfoe?

So we can build up faster Rage?! hahahahhahaha

When i said strongest spell damage weapon , that means as much spell damage as we can get. Because it's Holy damage that make us Aggro Machine , not the melee.

As for tanking gear, I'm not seeing a full +140 defense come together until 1.11's Deathbone improvement. And it seems a Paladin will be having a painful time trying to gear that. Instances get competed with Warriors who are generally given priority and AH's going to burn through your money.

Did you even check the link i posted you when you requested to see gear?

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13492

or you ignore comments same way like i will ignore you right now for talking nonsense .

[smilkovpetko]

Why is this still a thing?

sorry dude i will stop countering new created trolls from now on. will let you fellas take care of such trolls

[Ana]

Just for the record, if you keep "countering" everything people say with "arguments" such as "Spell Damage Weapon Give 3x Warrior Threat", noone sane is going to take you seriously.

/thread