What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[smilkovpetko]

You were the one who declared all you need is Judgement of the Crusader and Seal of Righteousness to draw aggro while you drink coffee for the rest of the fight. Don't pin your own words on me. That's the pinnacle of stupidity.

But I can point this out: Abilities cost mana. The Paladin's mana is very limited. At the end of the day, I don't see you spamming all of these abilities you're pointing out now. You just can't afford it. Also Exorcism is undead/demon only.

on 1 target i don't need anything except joc and sor.

but this doesn't change the fact that i don't need spell damage weapon.

Still other abilities are situational prepared on unexpected stuffs. similar like warriors that have "shield block" we got "holy shield" or warriors that have "taunt" we got "judgement" . Consecration for the aoe situation and "exorcism" for undeads to be mighty damage dealer.

Now please tell me more about your story for "paladins white swings" and "righteous fury" i really enjoyed that one laughing.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 60#p152358

[Theloras]

You were the one who declared all you need is Judgement of the Crusader and Seal of Righteousness to draw aggro while you drink coffee for the rest of the fight. Don't pin your own words on me. That's the pinnacle of stupidity.

But I can point this out: Abilities cost mana. The Paladin's mana is very limited. At the end of the day, I don't see you spamming all of these abilities you're pointing out now. You just can't afford it. Also Exorcism is undead/demon only.

It's more than doable bro:

My boy Cysthen Prot Pally MTing it up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCLxq3DHt4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPI89H5Va6A

[smilkovpetko]

@Aethelwulf

Righteous Fury

Increases the threat generated by your Holy attacks by 60%.

Improved Righteous Fury

Increases the amount of threat generated by your Righteous Fury spell by 50%.

Seal of Righteousness

Fills the Paladin with holy spirit for 30 sec, granting each melee attack an additional 20.5287356322 to 71.44 Holy damage. Slower weapons cause more Holy damage per swing. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will cause 162 to 179 Holy damage to an enemy.

Seal of the Crusader

Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 10 sec, increasing Holy damage taken by up to 140. Your melee strikes will refresh the spell's duration. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.

HEALING/SPELL POWER COEFFICIENTS

10% Seal of Righteousness with 1 handed weapon

50% Judgement of Righteousness

20% Holy Shield

Retribution Aura

Does 20 Holy damage to anyone who strikes you.

Blessing of Sanctuary

Damage taken reduced by up to 24 and blocked melee attacks cause 35 Holy damage to the attacker.

by Aethelwulf » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:44 pm

From what I can tell your white hits typically do SoR hits for half the damage.
With Imp Righteous Fury we could say that you get roughly double aggro from white hits.
The numbers don't appear to be adding up and a lot of gear will be passed to Warriors first.

If your Paladin has a holy damage bonus equal to 50% of his white damage, with RF it becomes 195% threat (relative to his white damage) per swing. If a warrior just has 150% of the Paladin's white damage, he exerts 224.25% the threat of a Paladin's white damage or 15% more threat than the Paladin overall.

by Aethelwulf » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:44 pm

...You're really being an idiot here. I was recommending them so that you land more Seal of Righteousness damage for threat. You still haven't explained how you intend to be getting so much threat compared to a Warrior, by the way.

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 3890_o.jpg

Here is the list of which ability does the most damage and is most used during bossfight.

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=56A3FDD3


Because you talk so much bullshits . enjoy and read yourself how much bullshit you have written until now on the quotes.

[Particles]

To the original poster's question:

DPS:
Fury Warr, Combat Rogue, Arcane frost Mage, DemoSac/Ruin Warlock

Healers:
Holy Priest/Pally, Resto Druid/Shaman

Tank:
Protection warrior.

Hunters deal some DPS but over the course of all content they don't keep up. A few skilled hunters for kiting/tranqs etc are very helpful to a raid though.


All the classes are useful in a 40man raid, although you'll usually see ~6-8 warrs/rogues/mages/priests, but only ~3 druids or hunters.


As far as paladin/druid dps/tanks, you can do whatever you want, but you could also run a raid with only dwarves.

Paladins don't have nearly the mitigation (and can run oom) compared to warrs, though a 30/21 healing spec could easily put a tank set on if you want them to aoe tank. They also lack a taunt which makes them worthless for tanking many fights. It's also pretty much impossible for them to get uncrushable, which a 60 warr basically gets by putting on a shield and pressing shieldblock.

[smilkovpetko]

Paladins don't have nearly the mitigation (and can run oom) compared to warrs, though a 30/21 healing spec could easily put a tank set on if you want them to aoe tank. They also lack a taunt which makes them worthless for tanking many fights. It's also pretty much impossible for them to get uncrushable, which a 60 warr basically gets by putting on a shield and pressing shieldblock.

We have many skyfall rockets talking craps and nonsense ..

"paladins don't have nearly the mitigation" based on nothing ,

because we do have mitigation and it is called 30% more block value , block rating by holy shield , sanctuary to reduce damage taken , extra parry and extra armor.

"(and can run oom) compared to warrs"

based on stupid theory because we don't need to spam like warriors in order to make extraordinary aggro where warriors the more gear they get the lesser rage they have and they cry for rage.

They also lack a taunt which makes them worthless for tanking many fights

where Paladins are aggro machine and don't even need taunt because we are biggest aggro machine on every single fight that exist and is impossible to overaggro paladin.

It's also pretty much impossible for them to get uncrushable

because we can reach easy def cap that make Paladins uncrushable and there is even topic with list of gear for that viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13492

which a 60 warr basically gets by putting on a shield and pressing shieldblock


but also Paladins basically gets by putting on a shield and pressing holyshield .

I enjoy how much people trashtalk and judging without any resort or evidence about what they talking.

Please restrain talking about some class which you clearly have 0 knowledge about it .

[Particles]

where Paladins are aggro machine and don't even need taunt because we are biggest aggro machine on every single fight that exist and is impossible to overaggro paladin.

Have you ever raided?
Hint: there are fights that require tankswaps that paladins literally can't do because they can't taunt.

It's also pretty much impossible for them to get uncrushable

because we can reach easy def cap that make Paladins uncrushable and there is even topic with list of gear for that viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13492

which a 60 warr basically gets by putting on a shield and pressing shieldblock
but also Paladins basically gets by putting on a shield and pressing holyshield .

Do you know the difference between uncrushable and uncrittable? Because it seems you don't. Holyshield is only 30%: are you saying you have 72.4% avoidance before holy shield?
Hint: Redoubt can't help you if your def capped.


I'm sorry, I don't know why I started this conversation with a troll that obviously has never MT'd a 40 man. Goodbye.

[smilkovpetko]

where Paladins are aggro machine and don't even need taunt because we are biggest aggro machine on every single fight that exist and is impossible to overaggro paladin.

Have you ever raided?
Hint: there are fights that require tankswaps that paladins literally can't do because they can't taunt.

It's also pretty much impossible for them to get uncrushable

because we can reach easy def cap that make Paladins uncrushable and there is even topic with list of gear for that viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13492

which a 60 warr basically gets by putting on a shield and pressing shieldblock
but also Paladins basically gets by putting on a shield and pressing holyshield .

Do you know the difference between uncrushable and uncrittable? Because it seems you don't. Holyshield is only 30%: are you saying you have 72.4% avoidance before holy shield?
Hint: Redoubt can't help you if your def capped.


I'm sorry, I don't know why I started this conversation with a troll that obviously has never MT'd a 40 man. Goodbye.

Have you ever raided?

best question i got so far

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 20#p147785

Hint: there are fights that require tankswaps that paladins literally can't do because they can't taunt.

wowwiki.com = all those fights have abilities/spells/strategy to be done without taunts or at least all of these are meant to use 1 paladin tank in group because every single raid consist with 4 tanks.

please name me specific fight that i can't tank because of "require tankswaps" before you talk more bullshits.

Do you know the difference between uncrushable and uncrittable? Because it seems you don't. Holyshield is only 30%: are you saying you have 72.4% avoidance before holy shield?


And which warrior can reach uncrushable until Naxx? . because you also have clearly no idea what uncrushable mean .

Uncrushable is impossible to get because for that you need 100+ Avoidance .

Because you messing frogs and cabbages let me enlight you:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_mitigation

Mitigation is the reduction of attack effectiveness. Types of melee and magical spell mitigation are absorb, armor, block, defense, resilience and resistance.

Not to be confused with avoidance, which includes such stats as dodge, miss and parry.

The crucial difference between the two being that an attack that is mitigated still does damage to the player, however an avoided attack deals no damage.

A tank is considered uncrushable when they are immune to crushing blows delivered by raid bosses. In order to do this, the attacking mob's attack table must be filled completely with other attack results that take precedence over Crushing Blows. Against an opponent 3 levels higher than the tank — Boss mobs are treated as being 3 levels higher than their targets — all combined avoidance must add up to 102.4%.

Tell me which warrior can reach dodge,parry,miss 102.4% ?!?!. especially in this patch.

Thus we got from talents and offset items lot more avoidance than block value compare to warriors sets that focus on block value which we already have extra 30% from talents.

I'm sorry, I don't know why I started this conversation with a troll that obviously has never MT'd a 40 man.

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 8017_o.jpg

obviously the troll here is you talking bullshits about Paladin Tanks.

[Particles]

I'm sorry, I assumed that you were arguing that Paladins were as good/better tanks then warriors, and not that they could tank. I concede that a paladin can tank, although there's no reason for a serious guild to take a pure prot pally.

With shield block, a 60 warrior with shit gear easily is uncrushable. CDs like last stand, and shield wall, as well as 3 taunts make tanking far easier on a warrior. Their tier gear is also designed for tanking, and the lack of mana means low downtime, and faster raids. You can, as you said, reinvent boss strats to let a pally tank a lot of fights, but in general it's going to be a lot of extra work with no real gain all so someone can be a special snowflake.

As I said in my original post, you can tank with paladins and druids, but you could also only allow dwarves in your raiding guild: if your guild takes raiding seriously there's no good reason to do it, and if you don't take raiding seriously then why do you care about what anyone else thinks about your spec?

[smilkovpetko]

I'm sorry, I assumed that you were arguing that Paladins were as good/better tanks then warriors, and not that they could tank. I concede that a paladin can tank, although there's no reason for a serious guild to take a pure prot pally.

With shield block, a 60 warrior with shit gear easily is uncrushable. CDs like last stand, and shield wall, as well as 3 taunts make tanking far easier on a warrior. Their tier gear is also designed for tanking, and the lack of mana means low downtime, and faster raids. You can, as you said, reinvent boss strats to let a pally tank a lot of fights, but in general it's going to be a lot of extra work with no real gain all so someone can be a special snowflake.

As I said in my original post, you can tank with paladins and druids, but you could also only allow dwarves in your raiding guild: if your guild takes raiding seriously there's no good reason to do it, and if you don't take raiding seriously then why do you care about what anyone else thinks about your spec?

although there's no reason for a serious guild to take a pure prot pally.

Although there's no reason for serious topic to talk bullshits based on 0 knowledge about Prot Pally.
Because this statement has nothing to do with what Prot Paladins are capable of Tanking .
Still Paladins can do same perfect job as Warriors do.

With shield block, a 60 warrior with shit gear easily is uncrushable.

You still ignored the meaning of Uncrushable and Avoidance that have been posted? Right. As i said (there is no tank that exist in vanilla that can get immune to uncrushable.

And which warrior can reach uncrushable until Naxx? . because you also have clearly no idea what uncrushable mean .

Uncrushable is impossible to get because for that you need 100+ Avoidance .

Because you messing frogs and cabbages let me enlight you:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_mitigation

Mitigation is the reduction of attack effectiveness. Types of melee and magical spell mitigation are absorb, armor, block, defense, resilience and resistance.

Not to be confused with avoidance, which includes such stats as dodge, miss and parry.

The crucial difference between the two being that an attack that is mitigated still does damage to the player, however an avoided attack deals no damage.

A tank is considered uncrushable when they are immune to crushing blows delivered by raid bosses. In order to do this, the attacking mob's attack table must be filled completely with other attack results that take precedence over Crushing Blows. Against an opponent 3 levels higher than the tank — Boss mobs are treated as being 3 levels higher than their targets — all combined avoidance must add up to 102.4%.

Tell me which warrior can reach dodge,parry,miss 102.4% ?!?!. especially in this patch.

Thus we got from talents and offset items lot more avoidance than block value compare to warriors sets that focus on block value which we already have extra 30% from talents.

CDs like last stand, and shield wall

That;s why Paladins have "Bubble" to remove all deadly debuffs and Lay of Hands.


as well as 3 taunts make tanking far easier on a warrior

The extreme Aggro Making by Paladins don't require Taunt at all , not to mention that 70% of Bosses are Taunt Immune.

Their tier gear is also designed for tanking,

That's why offset Tanking Gear exist.

and the lack of mana means low downtime

Only unskilled and stupid people think that we have mana issue because we don't . neither we stop drinking at all.

if your guild takes raiding seriously there's no good reason to do it, and if you don't take raiding seriously then why do you care about what anyone else thinks about your spec?

If your guild takes raiding seriously there's no good reason to play with stupid people like Particles on 10 years old game by min/maxing based on delusional concepts that doesn't exist .
And if you don't take raiding seriously then you can go with 20 warrior tanks called Particles because nobody would care.

That's been said now shut up before you talk more bullshits about protection paladin based on 0 knowledge and nonsense arguments about Game Mechanic ,Class Mechanic and Raid Boss Strategy/Abilities .

[Particles]

Avoidance in general can mean either miss+dodge+parry+block, or just miss+dodge+parry. Often what people care about is "hard" avoidance, because block is generally shitty. But blocks push crushes so....

And if you don't take raiding seriously then you can go with 20 warrior tanks called Particles because nobody would care.
That's been said now shut up before you talk more bullshits about protection paladin based on 0 knowledge and nonsense arguments about Game Mechanic ,Class Mechanic and Raid Boss Strategy/Abilities .

That was awesome.