Thoughts on achieving maximum efficiency

[dabigmoney]

I was wondering if someone could give me a few pointers on deciding whether rogue or mage and what racials

So enemy racials are a big problem for rogues, and I'm a bit stumped whether I should go alliance or horde.

(This is based on my current knowledge please let me know of any other pros or cons)

Alliance - gnome or human
pros
- gnome gets escape artist (could someone please clarify how is this exactly a useful racial in a T3 rogue vs T3 mage matchup, when the rogue is full of pvp gadgets. (tidal charm, grenades, nets, etc) )
- not having to deal with perception and human rogues seeing you from miles away
- not having to deal with dwarves stoneforming out of your blinds, crippling poisons, and bleeds
- no tanky paladins to deal with
- shamans are much more feasible targets in a bg / open world pvp scenario

cons
- having to deal with orc rogues and warlocks (1/4 chance) resisting your stuns and fucking you up
- escape artist might not be too useful when you're 60 and have tons of pvp gadgets
- perception only good against rogues
- humans have ugly animations
- gnomes have a very low camera angle

Horde - orc or undead
pros
- not having to deal with orcs resisting your stuns and turning fights in their favor
- 25 % chance stun resist is good against other rogues
- undead males have cute animations

cons
- undead have an almost useless racial for rogue (lack of warlocks, deathcoil, vanish, pvp trinket, and shadow reflector)
- paladins difficult to kill outside of 1 v 1
- cant blind, bleed, or crippling poison a dwarf
- unable to deadzone gnome warriors
- humans seeing you from a mile away and opening on you
- gnome mages removing crippling poison

(I'm also curious about the difficulty of a t3 rogue vs t3 orc warlock assuming both are well-played)

If rogue doesn't work out I'd like to roll a gnome mage but I'm also stumped on that too

Shamans are an annoyance for mages, but if I roll undead, I'd join the millions of other ud mages, have to deal with competent gnome warriors and rogues with pvp gadgets and trinkets, and paladins using blessing of freedom.

thanks

[Nugeneration]

Not exactly sure what you are asking, but always pick orc when you can for BG pvp and Undead for world pvp horde side.

Alliance doesn't really matter. All racials have their use for Alliance and none of them are overly strong to drown out the others.

I wouldn't worry about t3 comparisons that is a long ways off. It doesn't matter what class you are at those gear levels a warrior with a heal bot will eat your entire team alive unless you have the same on your side.

At t3 gear levels damn near every class has a spec that can and will blow up anyone in 2-3 gcds.

Play a warlock if you like casting shadow bolt, or a rogue if you like managing cooldowns. Hopefully I addressed any of your concerns?

[JCarrill0]

I was wondering if someone could give me a few pointers on deciding whether rogue or mage and what racials

So enemy racials are a big problem for rogues, and I'm a bit stumped whether I should go alliance or horde.

(This is based on my current knowledge please let me know of any other pros or cons)

My Bias answer is Alliance! (Pro-Alliance/Anti-Horde)

- gnome gets escape artist (could someone please clarify how is this exactly a useful racial in a T3 rogue vs T3 mage matchup, when the rogue is full of pvp gadgets. (tidal charm, grenades, nets, etc) )
(I'm also curious about the difficulty of a t3 rogue vs t3 orc warlock assuming both are well-played)

When making the toon, this early, not something to really consider since your years away from t3. (unless you plan to wait).

cons
- undead have an almost useless racial for rogue (lack of warlocks, deathcoil, vanish, pvp trinket, and shadow reflector)

I would tend to think "WotF" is a pretty useful racial, for any class, not just Rogues:

Will of the Forsaken (Undead Racial)
Instant (2 min cooldown)
Provides immunity to Charm, Fear and Sleep while active. May also be used while already afflicted by Charm, Fear or Sleep. Lasts 5 sec.

IMHO (In My Honest Opinion):
If your looking for a cheap class, Human Rogues is the way to go, If your looking for Caster for PvE/PvP benefits, Gnome Mage.
If your dead set on Horde, Orc Rogue/Troll Mage.
(these are my opinions, take it or leave it, but most of all, enjoy what you like, not what other tell you to like

[dabigmoney]

Thanks for your responses, they were really helpful.

I wouldn't worry about t3 comparisons that is a long ways off. It doesn't matter what class you are at those gear levels a warrior with a heal bot will eat your entire team alive unless you have the same on your side.

Reason I was a bit worried about T3 is because there won't be TBC to deprecate naxx, so I thought it may be more important to worry about. (A lot more people will have access to T3 than in vanilla, etc)

If your looking for a cheap class, Human Rogues is the way to go, If your looking for Caster for PvE/PvP benefits, Gnome Mage.

I'm looking for a cheesy race to 1 v 1 anyone decently so I'll probably go human rogue, haha.

-

One question about human, how much does +5 mace specialization contribute in pvp.

(I had misplaced servo arm and several pieces of T3 in vanilla, but it wasn't on a human)

I mainly plan to BG!

[varth]

There's a very good reason theres so many UD rogues. Good looking animations, will of the forsaken is incredible against priests and warlocks, decent against warriors and charm. Cannibalize gives you another tool to heal yourself in combat. From a pure pvp perspective no other race comes close.

If you want pure cheese, look up "3 minute mage" and there's the best answer

[Wortex]

I feel that dwarf rogue would be the best. Beeing able to take out blinds helps ALOT against other rogues and beeing able to take away the warriors bleed to restealth or vanish is not too bad either.

[Chillout]

Stoneform > Devouring Plague

[Thatoneguy]

Horde racials are better for PvP than alliance Racials are.

Orcs are the most RNG with a 25% chance to outright resist any stun. Every class with the exception of Shamans have at least 1 stun in their arsonal. Unless you count Engineering, suddenly you're in for a ride because now you can even resist bombs being thrown at you.

Paladins with HoJ have a 6 sec stun. Rogues will continuesly use CS and Kidney Shot. Mages have their Impact talent, Warlocks have Pyroclasm, Warriors use Charge & Intercept, Priests use Blackout, Hunters with Intimidation.

Compare stuns to blind. While stunned you're going to get beat down from every angle. If somebody blinds you then you will be left alone because it breaks immediately once you take damage. Stoneform is nice, but outright garbage compared to resisting stuns.

Stuns are going a much bigger problem than a single 5min CD Blind, I assure you. Especially in BGs, a place where you will spend the majority of your time if you're out to gain some serious honor.

Fear is just sick. Priests and Warlocks use fear all the time. You're going to be a sitting duck for 15+ seconds, only depending on how luck you are to 'only' be feared for 15 seconds. Not to mention Warriors make use of Fear as well. Being able to dispell it every 2 minutes and be immune to it for another 5 seconds is just imbalanced, not to mention you get +10 shadow resistance and another bandage in combat on top of it as well.