On a scale of 1 to erection how much better is Vanila > live

[Stalk]

How do you not understand this? Heroic 5 mans weren't pre-raid content. They were 5 man "raid" content.

Most of the gear in heroic dungeons was not at the same level as the rewards from Tier 4 raiding. The only reward from heroics that matched the raiding came from badge of justice rewards which required an absurd amount of dungeon groups for the most minor upgrades. When a player finished their badge grind to replace parts that he or she had yet to upgrade from Karazhan or Gruul's Lair, most of them stopped doing heroic dungeons and the game became very stale and boring. If you did not need to do Shattered Halls or the Arcatraz on Heroic mode, most of the time you wouldn't. You do not seem to understand the principles of game design that Blizzard planned for the Burning Crusade expansion. Blizzard wanted players to be excited about logging on and having the choice of doing something fun so they added daily quests and balanced the dungeon mechanics. When you can watch a guild flawlessly complete Magtheridon's Lair but its veteran players wipe on trash in 5-player dungeons multiple times, maybe you will understand this.

[Robotron]

Uh, I was actually there for that. I started raiding in early TBC (February or March 2007). The nerfs were whatever at the end of the day, but the real bullshit was the buffing of BoJ gear.

Though when you make the content require loads and loads of time and effort to get into, the end result is Naxx40 and Sunwell where less than 1% of the playerbase completes the raid while it's still current content. If you were a game developer, would you want to spend shitloads of time developing things that only 1% of the playerbase is ever going to see?

Don't get me wrong, I like having content require time and effort, but it's not very good for development, and of course, making the game more accessible brings in loads more players/revenue. After all, WoW's peak was during WOTLK, which was constantly decried as being "casual", and its newcomers labeled "wrath babies".

I definitely understand these points. Thing is, people can just go back and experience that content after the next expansion came out (I know I did with Naxx in TBC). Yes, it's elitist, but a game like this needs elitism to some degree.

[Codeine]

Why do people say TBC was better? It actually ruined the game. Flying mounts ruined world pvp and made the world feel tiny. Resilience made PvP too serious and another extra thing you HAVE to do to be able to pvp competitively. It made hybrids better then non hybrids. Reduced raiding size to accommodate casuals. Introduced farming daily quests *shudders* It's the bridge to how shit the game is now, fuck you TBC. The way Blizz introduced the expansion made 80% of the rest of the game worthless.

The only good thing was its raid content, but then they removed attunements anyway.

[Askental]

Why do people say TBC was better? It actually ruined the game. Flying mounts ruined world pvp and made the world feel tiny. Resilience made PvP too serious and another extra thing you HAVE to do to be able to pvp competitively. It made hybrids better then non hybrids. Reduced raiding size to accommodate casuals. Introduced farming daily quests *shudders* It's the bridge to how shit the game is now, fuck you TBC. The way Blizz introduced the expansion made 80% of the rest of the game worthless.

The only good thing was its raid content, but then they removed attunements anyway.

^This.
The guild bank was useful tho.

[Robotron]

Class balance in PVE was the best it's ever been, plus the raids were awesome.

Attunements were just fine at first, but were fucking horrible when you were trying to progress in T6, but due to player turnover, you had to keep going back to SSC/TK to key new recruits, otherwise you'd have only 22 raiders for BT.

The other main thing I didn't like about TBC raids was how Vashj and Kael (specifically Kael'thas) were harder than Illidan or Archimonde. It's very anti-climactic to battle your way through T5, only to have T6 turn out actually easier. That's also another reason having to key people every week or two sucked.

[gotmilk0112]

Why do people say TBC was better? It actually ruined the game.

"Ruined", yeah... Let's do this:

Flying mounts ruined world pvp and made the world feel tiny.

"World pvp" doesn't exist as much as you people say it does. A vast majority of "world pvp" is actually just ganking.

And no, there's still a good amount of open-world PvP combat in TBC. Try hanging around the summoning stones, or doing the PvP events in Hellfire/Terokkar. Plenty of "world pvp" to be had there.

Resilience made PvP too serious and another extra thing you HAVE to do to be able to pvp competitively.

What, and vanilla PvP with its extensive rank system wasn't serious? Resilience just added a way to reduce insane burst damage in PvP.

It made hybrids better then non hybrids.

Please explain how hybrids are "better" than pures.

Reduced raiding size to accommodate not having to carry dead weight buff classes and underperformers

FTFY. Nice job throwing around buzzwords at things you don't like.

Introduced farming daily quests

Which nobody forced you to do, outside of QD stuff.

The only good thing was its raid content, but then they removed attunements anyway.

Attunements were bad for the playerbase, and not alt-friendly at all. Grinding to revered with five reps to access heroics on one character is bad enough; having to do it in additional toons was a pain in the fucking ass.

And raid attunements were even worse, because it meant that if you had to replace someone in your raid group, you often had to poach players from other guilds because they were the only ones attuned to the raid.

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9

[Sham]

Current WoW is much better then vanilla. Its laughable to even compare. But Im playing nost only for twinking, and twinking is quite good here

[gotmilk0112]

Current WoW is much better then vanilla.

In a lot of ways, yes. In a lot of other ways, it's way worse.

I love dual-spec, I enjoy having LFD (but I don't like the instant-teleport aspect), I enjoy the cross-server group finder, I enjoy the streamlined questing, and I enjoy multiple raid difficulties.

On the other hand, I don't enjoy how almost everything outside of heroic+ raiding is piss easy, I don't enjoy how leveling is mindlessly easy, I don't enjoy "heroic dungeons" that are just 15 minute AoE facerolls, I don't enjoy professions being dumbed down, I don't enjoy garrison chore bullshit (or the shipyard which is just an extension of garrison followers).

Vanilla is vastly superior in terms of fun and enjoyment, whereas retail is vastly superior with quality of life improvements and general mechanics.

[Soyoen]

On a scale to 1 to erection?

ERECTION


1) Social aspect
2) World boss aspect
3) Guild rivalries
4) 40man raids
5) World PvP
6) Obvious nostalgia