Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

[Imbaslap]

I just need a link to the thread smit made with that video for the CC in ud strat for the sheep and so on. the bug tracker is rip so I cant pull that data anywhere.

[smilkovpetko]

#8 is actually wrong, you will always have the base level of the mob preventing you from 100% hit chance on holy spells. lvl 63 mobs always have 15 res all implicit because its a higher level. that's just how it is

Dude you doubt on my bug reporting?

Holy Resistance was removed at 0.9 Patch period.

Level Based will still persist but due to non existent Holy Resistance there is 0 . 0. 0. 0 .0 "Full Resist"

Damage Abilities are "Non Binary" and "Non Binary" have 0% chance to "Full Resist" 24< Resistance Score.

It is only "Partial damage that would get resisted" 25% , 50% and extremely low chance 75% of the damage.

Judge of Command is working as Ranged "Magic" (don't get confused with spell it's not spell) and can Resist if not enough Melee Hit Rating only. (it works similar to Hammer of Wrath).

Here is Quote with everything proved:

Judgement of Command is proven as "Magic Ranged Attack" , Seal of Command is proven as "Magic Melee Attack"

This definition given by wowwiki : http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_table

To better understand this issue you need to make big analysis.

Let start with step by step which nor Theoloras nor others understood it well since this report posts are described about how it work.

Magic-damage melee special attacks http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_table

Some monsters also have melee "specials" (the equivalent of yellow-damage attacks done by players) that do magic damage. For example, the Crystal Strike ability of the Erratic Sentries on the Isle of Quel'Danas inflicts Arcane damage, but is resolved as an ordinary melee special attack—it can miss, be dodged, be parried, and be blocked, and does double damage on a crit. The only difference between how a magic-damage melee special attack, and an ordinary physical damage melee special attack, is resolved is that if the target has any resistance to that school of magic, the same check is made to see if the damage is partially resisted as would happen from a spell.

A few player abilities, such as a paladin's Seal of Command, are likewise resolved as yellow-damage melee attacks that deal non-physical damage.

Now Seal of Command is Explained in which part of Attacks belong.

The Magic Attacks that are "Resisted" are also divided in 2 groups :

According to Archives in 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20060719121 ... ances.html

Here is an example of how various resistance scores play out against level-50 spells:

Binnary

Resistance Score------ 50 --100 --150 --200 --250
Chance to Resist Spell 15% - 30% - 45% -60%- 75%

Non Binary

Resistance Score ------------------50 -100- 150-200 -250
Chance to Resist Spell ------------ 0% -1% -1% -11% -25%
Chance to Resist 100% Damage --0% -1% -1% -11% -25%
Chance to Resist 75% Damage ---2% -6% -18% -34% -55%
Chance to Resist 50% Damage --11% -24% -48% -40% -16%
Chance to Resist 25% Damage --33% -49% -26% -14% -3%
Chance to Take Full Damage -----54% -20% -7% -1% -1%


And Since : 0.9 Patch Holy Resistance is removed

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Binary_spell?oldid=886608
Binary spells are spells which can only have full effect (hit) or no effect (resist); partial resists are not possible

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance
For non-binary spells

Resistance increased the chance to suffer only a fraction of the spell's normal damage.
This allowed a sufficiently high resistance to guarantee a certain resist percentage

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance?oldid=343207
damage spells are resisted in such a manner that the average damage is reduced by the resistance effect

This mean that Seal and Judge of Command should resist up to 50 Resistance Score rule (which is 50 or lesser) explained in the Table with "Non Binary" "Damage Spells". Where chance to "Full damage" is 54% , Chance to "Partial Resist 25% Damage" is 33% , Chance to "Partial Resist 50% Damage" is 11% , Chance to "Partial Resist 75% Damage" is 2%.

Now since we Define how Seal of Command work , there is additional tip about Judgement of Command.

Magic-damage ranged special attacks Edit

The Arcane Shot of a Hunter, and the Hammer of Wrath and Avenger's Shield talent of a Protection-specced Paladin, are resolved as ranged attacks that do non-physical damage. They can miss—rather than be "fully resisted"—and they do double damage on a crit. the miss chance is reduced by the player's Hit Rating, and the chance to crit is increased by the player's Agility and Crit Rating.


Judgement of Command can only Resist or Double Crit. Hit Rating reduced the chance to "Resist" and Agility/Melee Crit will increase the Crit of this Ability.

The only difference in this specific Ability (Judgement of Command) is that in Tooltip and Log it shows as Resist , where in the "Code" is written as "Miss" and work exactly same as Hunter Ranged (Arcane shot) , Hammer of Wrath.

Judgement of Command can Partially resist that makes it Non-Binary but since it is under Magic Ranged attack miss is converted into "Resist" the reason you see "Full Resist" if there is not enough Hit Rating.


Definition in short :

Seal of Command - Melee Magic Attack that can Dodge/Parry/Block/Double Crit/Partial resist (25%/50% and rare 75% resist of the amount of the damage "Never Full") because Holy Resistance doesn't exist.

Judgement of Command - Ranged Magic attack that can "Resist" (code is written as miss but only toltip) Double Crit and Partial Resist (25%/50% and rare 75% resist of the amount of the damage).

Procs from "Melee Swings" from Trinkets,Enchants etc should also Proc for Seal of Command.
Procs from "Range Hunter White hits" from Trinkets,Enchants etc should also proc for Judgement of Command.

Seal of Command Delay should Variate between 0.2 - 0.5 Seconds Delay as Separate Swing that will also benefit from Vengeance prior to 1.11 Patch++

Video from 2006 as Evidence for this Detailed Explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovhRqAxnXqg
Uploaded on Nov 19, 2006

1:32 = 476 dmg (159 resist) = 25% = 635 full amount of damage - Seal of Command

2:02 = 322 dmg (321 resist) = 50% = 643 full amount of damage - Seal of Command
2:07 = 163 dmg (54 resist) = 25% = 217 full amount of damage - Judgement of Command
2:26 = 262 dmg (87 resist) = 25% = 349 full amount of damage - Judgement of Command


2:09 (Seal of Command does Dodge)
esquiver Seau d'autorite = Dodge!
3:46 Parade Seau d'aurotite = Parry!

I hope this will help to guide Developers and Testers Direct toward all Seal and Judgement of Command Issues related.

Sorry for my English bad Grammar i hope you will understand it.

[Noxm]

hey Imbaslap <3

i know you are alpha test. How is the alpha ? What your point of view about their core ?

[Imbaslap]

holy resistance will always be around for mobs/npcs as long as there is holy spells. arguing this is pretty dumb. you link posts about spell resistance tables and how "spells" are interpreted BASED on that same resistance table. the binary/non-binary spells are defined by a nature or school. the schools range from frost all the way to fire or nature. Holy damage is another classification of "spell" type defined by the game. Holy Resistance was removed from the character sheet and "hidden" to make it separate from the other schools. however, the way that holy damage/spell nature is defined is by having holy resistance, otherwise holy damage wouldn't exist in the game. they would just make pally spells do physical damage rather than a non-existent spell nature (holy). so you basically debunked your entire post with a misunderstanding of how spell schools and damage is defined by the game.

here is an example.
binary/non binary spells that are cast.
each of these spells have classifications (or also known as a "School")such as:
Frost
Fire
Nature
Shadow
Arcane
Holy


any spell or ability that does a damage value or effect from these spell schools is subject to the blizzard resistance table to "determine" how it is calculated in the game.

patch 0.9 removed holy resistance from the "visible" table to separate it from that group. holy spells/damage interpretation from affixes like "all resistance" and "+X to Resistance" on gear/spells/buffs etc do not affect the Holy spell school.

because you have holy spells and holy damage, the Holy school will always be there to determine spell hit/spell resist as well as your damage amount. it is just not part of that "group" which leads to my comment above about affixes that affect the "school table". All resist affix applies to the school table which includes the 5 spell natures. fire/frost/shadow/nature/arcane. (before patch 0.9, this affix affected holy because it was a part of it.)

"removing holy resistance from the game would mean holy spells/damage calculations cannot be interpreted by the mob/player/object/game".

do you see any "physical" spells? do you see them get resisted or partial damage? no? that's because there is no physical school for spells. how about rainbow sherbert spells? or mud spells? they don't exist.

spell hit % on binary/non binary affect the schools of magic.
which are fire, frost, nature, arcane, shadow and Holy.
the 6 schools of magic.
the entire resistance table is for those 6 schools.

binary spells and non-binary spells differ in determining hit vs miss
a "missed" spell is called a full resist, but it's effectively a miss
for a non-binary spell, one that can be partially resisted, you first figure out the base chance to hit.. this is not affected by resistance AT ALL.
if it hits, then you use the resistance value to determine what percentage of the spell is resisted. in the case of holy resist, it's pretty much always zero, so they don't get resisted partially. but they can still miss.

for binary spells, you need to calculate Ravg, and for that you have to know what the "Holy Resistance" stat is. again, it's pretty much always zero, so you can chop that out of the equation in most cases, but it's still technically a value in the calculation.
lvl 63 mobs having a base 15 resist to all schools of magic due to "level difference"
when you walk up to a mob that has 15 resist to holy and it is level 63, it is for determining the Ravg for binary spells and the 2nd part of non binary spells.

The gain is 5 resist per level higher, this cannot be mitigated by any means
R = Rb + max((Lt - Lc)*5, 0)
where
R = resistance
Rb = target base resistance to school (as advertised on the character sheet, creature_proto)
Lt = target level
Lc = caster level
that Rb in the case of holy is always zero
but you still have to add the level differential.

TLDR: Holy resistance is still there to determine everything you do against a mob with a Holy school of magic spell. if a mob is higher level than you, they can resist your holy damage(including partial resists). if they are same level, there should not be partial resist damage from holy spells.

hopefully this helps you understand the math part of the game. otherwise, everyone would do the same damage type and the same values with no special snowflakes. saying holy resistance was removed means pallies do no holy damage or have no holy spells because you took away the only way to interpret spell resistance/hit/damage calculations by the game. so no, you're wrong in how you interpreted that post from the patch notes. it wasn't removed from the game, it was removed from the schools of spell table (originally 6, now its 5) and made invisible from player character sheet.

if you disagree with my post, then go ahead and create your own game and see how far you get with non defined number values.

@noxm the Alpha is going good. still a lot of work to do, but clustering works great and the core not being Mangos is a relief. be sure to check out their forums from time to time and to watch the devs corner. they stream almost every weekend and answer questions.

[smilkovpetko]

Imbaslap you are misunderstand how Resistance work dude.. This is not written by me , this is created and written by Blizzard and you can't false that in the name of "Believing" .

I gave you all the facts and will repeat:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_0.9

Holy Resistance has been replaced with Arcane Resistance.

It was not "Removed" but it was "Replaced with Arcane Resistance".

Now let me enlighten you:

holy resistance will always be around for mobs/npcs as long as there is holy spells.

There is in the Code Holy Resistance but Holy Resistance is and will always be 0.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.8.0
-Chromatic Gauntlets no longer has a listed Holy Resistance bonus, since there is no actual Holy Resistance.

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance

There is no resistance stat for Holy, and as such no players nor NPCs can resist Holy spells.
A character's current resistance score to each school is advertised on the character sheet.

you link posts about spell resistance tables and how "spells" are interpreted BASED on that same resistance table. the binary/non-binary spells are defined by a nature or school.

That table explained how actually "Resistance Work" and is written by Blizzard official , it is written with both Binary and Non-Binary spells.

Holy Resistance was removed from the character sheet and "hidden" to make it separate from the other schools.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_0.9
Holy Resistance has been replaced with Arcane Resistance.

however, the way that holy damage/spell nature is defined is by having holy resistance, otherwise holy damage wouldn't exist in the game.

Perhaps Holy do exist in the code but everything is 0, completely 0 because it is not meant to exist.
http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance
There is no resistance stat for Holy, and as such no players nor NPCs can resist Holy spells.

You can't deny what is written and created by Blizzard.

they would just make pally spells do physical damage rather than a non-existent spell nature (holy).

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Holy_resistance
Holy resistance does not currently exist as a visible or collectible statistic in World of Warcraft. It only exists against PvE targets of a higher level.

It is only level based... and this is what was explained in the Non Binary/Binary table.

any spell or ability that does a damage value or effect from these spell schools is subject to the blizzard resistance table to "determine" how it is calculated in the game.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060719121 ... ances.html

Originally written by Blizzard from 2006 how resistance work on Binary/Non Binary.

patch 0.9 removed holy resistance from the "visible" table to separate it from that group. holy spells/damage interpretation from affixes like "all resistance" and "+X to Resistance" on gear/spells/buffs etc do not affect the Holy spell school.

because you have holy spells and holy damage, the Holy school will always be there to determine spell hit/spell resist as well as your damage amount. it is just not part of that "group" which leads to my comment above about affixes that affect the "school table". All resist affix applies to the school table which includes the 5 spell natures. fire/frost/shadow/nature/arcane. (before patch 0.9, this affix affected holy because it was a part of it.)

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance

There is no resistance stat for Holy, and as such no players nor NPCs can resist Holy spells.

(This is not written by me, it is how it is working).

"removing holy resistance from the game would mean holy spells/damage calculations cannot be interpreted by the mob/player/object/game".

Holy Resistance should be completely 0, it does exist in the code but complete 0. So it should be impossible to "Resist in your level".

spell hit % on binary/non binary affect the schools of magic.
which are fire, frost, nature, arcane, shadow and Holy.
the 6 schools of magic.
the entire resistance table is for those 6 schools.

binary spells and non-binary spells differ in determining hit vs miss
a "missed" spell is called a full resist, but it's effectively a miss
for a non-binary spell, one that can be partially resisted, you first figure out the base chance to hit.. this is not affected by resistance AT ALL.
if it hits, then you use the resistance value to determine what percentage of the spell is resisted. in the case of holy resist, it's pretty much always zero, so they don't get resisted partially. but they can still miss.

You misunderstand this , Paladin Abilities are working on "Melee Hit Rating" so you opinion about "Hit Rating" is wrong related to Paladins.... It is explained on previous post via Attack Table.

For non-binary spells, resistance is computed as a second calculation after the spell hit chance is rolled. After a spell hit is determined, a partial resist calculation based on resistance is done, which can also result in a full resist. These two resists once appeared identically in the combat log, and there was no known way to distinguish a spell miss from a full resist.

Our Abilities are based on Melee Hit Rating and they will Dodge/Parry/Block/Miss with exclusion of unique Judgement of Command that does Resist if not enough Melee Hit Rating...

(The spell Hit Rating for us is Melee Hit Rating) So Non Binary/Binary first check our "Melee Hit Rating" then work.
This has nothing to do with "Existence of Holy"... It should be always 0.

lvl 63 mobs having a base 15 resist to all schools of magic due to "level difference"
when you walk up to a mob that has 15 resist to holy and it is level 63, it is for determining the Ravg for binary spells and the 2nd part of non binary spells.

Nobody denying that 3 mobs higher or Boss have 15 resist due to "Level Difference".

15 Resist apply under the score written by Blizzard :

Non Binary

Resistance Score ---------------------50---100--150---200 -250
Chance to Resist Spell ---------------0%--1%----1%--11% -25%
Chance to Resist 100% Damage --0%---1%---1%--11% -25%
Chance to Resist 75% Damage ----2%---6%--18%-34% -55%
Chance to Resist 50% Damage ----11%-24%-48%-40% -16%
Chance to Resist 25% Damage ----33%-49%-26%-14% -3%
Chance to Take Full Damage --------54%-20%---7%-1% -1%

Where it rule apply to number 50 or lesser. So you see there is 0 "Full Resist".

And this is what i wrote on previous post:
Video from 2006 as Evidence for this Detailed Explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovhRqAxnXqg
Uploaded on Nov 19, 2006

1:32 = 476 dmg (159 resist) = 25% = 635 full amount of damage - Seal of Command

2:02 = 322 dmg (321 resist) = 50% = 643 full amount of damage - Seal of Command
2:07 = 163 dmg (54 resist) = 25% = 217 full amount of damage - Judgement of Command
2:26 = 262 dmg (87 resist) = 25% = 349 full amount of damage - Judgement of Command


2:09 (Seal of Command does Dodge)
esquiver Seau d'autorite = Dodge!
3:46 Parade Seau d'aurotite = Parry!

That is only and only against Boss and 3 Level Higher.

TLDR: Holy resistance is still there to determine everything you do against a mob with a Holy school of magic spell. if a mob is higher level than you, they can resist your holy damage(including partial resists). if they are same level, there should not be partial resist damage from holy spells.

My post with bugs is not about "Level Difference" , it is about having "Holy Resistance" because it was removed from the Game it should never be higher than 0 unless "Level Difference".

Level Resistance is also presented under the "Table" and it is proven that it's score should never go higher than the rule of 50 regarding Holy Abilities and Video is pure Evidence.

Seal of Command should never ever "Resist" full, it can only "Partial" according the <50 Table.
Same apply for other abilities.

hopefully this helps you understand the math part of the game. otherwise, everyone would do the same damage type and the same values with no special snowflakes. saying holy resistance was removed means pallies do no holy damage or have no holy spells because you took away the only way to interpret spell resistance/hit/damage calculations by the game. so no, you're wrong in how you interpreted that post from the patch notes. it wasn't removed from the game, it was removed from the schools of spell table (originally 6, now its 5) and made invisible from player character sheet.

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance

There is no resistance stat for Holy, and as such no players nor NPCs can resist Holy spells.

if you disagree with my post, then go ahead and create your own game and see how far you get with non defined number values.

I presented you facts , websites and originally written by Blizzard. you can't deny Evidence.

[ripnost2016]

Hey, lets get back on topic here.

This server is looking promising on paper, of course that doesn't mean much until they can deliver an actual product.

The project has been in development for a long time, and its not being rushed to an unfinished release, which is good. There's a lot of upfront communication, as well as constant development progress logs from the team. The devs seem to have a lot of right ideas even though I personally disagree with some of them.

Some of the negatives in my opinion:

Proposed cross-realm bgs between their pvp and pve realms
~4k population cap/server
The developers seem to have full time jobs, which means less time investment/slower development.
"Loose" view on multiboxing, seems that they want to discourage and prevent people from using it, rather than punish for its abuse.

The beta is supposably sometime in September, which should answer a lot of questions about the potential of this project, until then its just something to keep an eye on.

[VeloxBanks]

Hey, lets get back on topic here.

This server is looking promising on paper, of course that doesn't mean much until they can deliver an actual product.

The project has been in development for a long time, and its not being rushed to an unfinished release, which is good. There's a lot of upfront communication, as well as constant development progress logs from the team. The devs seem to have a lot of right ideas even though I personally disagree with some of them.

Some of the negatives in my opinion:

Proposed cross-realm bgs between their pvp and pve realms
~4k population cap/server
The developers seem to have full time jobs, which means less time investment/slower development.
"Loose" view on multiboxing, seems that they want to discourage and prevent people from using it, rather than punish for its abuse.

The beta is supposably sometime in September, which should answer a lot of questions about the potential of this project, until then its just something to keep an eye on.

There are some things wrong with what you said and I feel the need to correct you since this thread will potentially bring more people in.

Yes, crossrealm BGs MIGHT be a thing. There also MIGHT be an option to donate for a realm transfer. Before anyone flips their sh*t keep in mind that this in no way means people will be tossing around dosh just to switch servers. Crossrealm BGs might be a thing if one of the two realms is underpopulated. Even then it's even more likely to just merge the two servers. That takes care of both transfers and crossrealm BGs.

The pop will be capped at 3500. I don't really see anything wrong with that. Nost spoiled us with a big number, that's all.

Either the devs have full time jobs or they put in a legit pay 2 win system where you fund not only the server but their livelyhoods. Easy choice on our end if you ask me.

From what I understand they are currently thinking of ways to deal with multiboxing. Honestly, just discouraging it is already way more than other servers have done, are doing and will do when it comes to multiboxing. Key word is "discouraging". Reason why they can't just ban multiple IPs coming from one spot is because they don't want to disallow groups of people from the same place playing together. It's not an easy choice to make but even with that they're already leaning towards anti-multiboxing.

[Keftenk]

Yuck at "low pop" servers. I say that with hopes that Crestfall would actually take off, haha.
You're right Nost spoiled us, but they also allowed for the possibility which was truly remarkable.

[ripnost2016]

There are some things wrong with what you said and I feel the need to correct you since this thread will potentially bring more people in.

Yes, crossrealm BGs MIGHT be a thing. There also MIGHT be an option to donate for a realm transfer. Before anyone flips their sh*t keep in mind that this in no way means people will be tossing around dosh just to switch servers. Crossrealm BGs might be a thing if one of the two realms is underpopulated. Even then it's even more likely to just merge the two servers. That takes care of both transfers and crossrealm BGs.

The pop will be capped at 3500. I don't really see anything wrong with that. Nost spoiled us with a big number, that's all.

Either the devs have full time jobs or they put in a legit pay 2 win system where you fund not only the server but their livelyhoods. Easy choice on our end if you ask me.

From what I understand they are currently thinking of ways to deal with multiboxing. Honestly, just discouraging it is already way more than other servers have done, are doing and will do when it comes to multiboxing. Key word is "discouraging". Reason why they can't just ban multiple IPs coming from one spot is because they don't want to disallow groups of people from the same place playing together. It's not an easy choice to make but even with that they're already leaning towards anti-multiboxing.

Its clear to see that there's a lot of demand for proper vanilla servers, I fail to see how one 3500-person pvp server(assuming that it is better than anything out there) can fill that demand without having huge login queues . There seems to be a sweetspot of population somewhere between 3k-8k players per realm, obviously anything higher than that tends to cause "unplayable lag". I don't think I've ever had to wait in queue to play on Nostalrius, even when there were 12000 other people on at that time, which made it very convenient if you had to be on to raid or login for a world boss at certain times, that being said, 12k is too many people. I think there should be a cap, but I think it should be higher than 3500, its obviously possible to have a lag-free experience with a much higher number.

Something along the lines of 6k-7k cap for pvp server and 3k-4k for pve(there's a lot less demand to play on a carebear server) seems very reasonable.

I understand that no one likes to work for free especially for extended periods of time, there needs to be a donation type service when the server launches. This may even include incentives such as certain in-game items or services that do not affect gameplay or the server's economy, such as unique tabards, shirts, maybe even mounts(as long as they've been purchased with ingame gold already), or even character feature changes("haircuts").

Introducing other paid services such as; race/faction changes, realm transfers and anything worse than that tends to ruin servers. The truth is, if the product is good and has a lot of demand, people will be willing to donate to keep it that way.

Another crucial part of any new private server is the content release time-line and the developers' ability to stick to that time-line, no one wants to farm molten core for 8 months. All the content release tables have to be in place before actual launch. Hardcore players want a fast-paced vanilla experience, and vanilla servers should NOT cater to casuals.

Again, I strongly believe that if these devs are able to put forward a product that is on par or better with whats out there right now, money will not be an issue for them, people will donate if they are given what they want.

TLDR: I'm ok with seeing alliance on horde mounts as long as they've paid for them with in-game gold and donated to keep the server going, no one cares about skins.

[Imbaslap]

first Smit says holy resistance shouldn't exist.. then he says it was replaced by Arcane. then he says all mobs shouldnt have holy resist..then goes on a tangent about abiltiies getting resisted with partials linking wow wiki links.
dude.. seriously stop contradicting yourself in your posts.

im not saying you're wrong, im just debunking your false accusations of holy resistance being completely removed.

but lets remove holy resist on CF and see how that goes. RIP pallies
all abilities wont hit/miss/do any damage because you removed the only spell school the game requires to calculate its function.

basically you would just have abilities that do nothing because there is nothing to calculate its function because you removed holy resistance.

sound logic I say.

you can test it out for yourself actually.

1) Download CMangos 2016.
2) in the database, delete the string "SpellSchool = 1 (SPELL_SCHOOL_HOLY)" from the DB and save it.
3) Run Cmangos online and cast any ability that uses that spell school.
4) Profit.

holy resistance has officially been removed.