Crestfall - 1x progressive Vanilla server

[Cardinalsin]

Yuck at "low pop" servers. I say that with hopes that Crestfall would actually take off, haha.
You're right Nost spoiled us, but they also allowed for the possibility which was truly remarkable.

The developers have made it clear that ~3500 is the max population on any realm. One of the reasons for this was in Vanilla populations were closer to ~2500 so a population of 10,000 or so is not vanilla because it skews the economy. I realise that after a decade or so we have all moved on in hardware so capabilities are much higher when the game was first released, well then, all the more reason to play retail.

Crestfall is an homage to vanilla. They want to replicate as much as possible what vanilla was really like, any changes made either improve the existing experience or indeed, make it harder (the mobs/bosses are slightly tougher to reflect player skills).

If more people want to play, they will just provide more realms. I'm biased on this. I like realms where I know everyone for better or worse.

[Keftenk]

It only skews the economy if nothing is done about the economy. It's not hard to compensate properly for a higher population. Capping a server so low is just asking for players to go elsewhere. Doesn't really make much sense to make 3 realms when you could just have everyone on one.

It's not like the realms are going to be completely region locked, like retail*.

[Cardinalsin]

Its clear to see that there's a lot of demand for proper vanilla servers, I fail to see how one 3500-person pvp server(assuming that it is better than anything out there) can fill that demand without having huge login queues . There seems to be a sweetspot of population somewhere between 3k-8k players per realm, obviously anything higher than that tends to cause "unplayable lag". I don't think I've ever had to wait in queue to play on Nostalrius, even when there were 12000 other people on at that time, which made it very convenient if you had to be on to raid or login for a world boss at certain times, that being said, 12k is too many people. I think there should be a cap, but I think it should be higher than 3500, its obviously possible to have a lag-free experience with a much higher number.

Something along the lines of 6k-7k cap for pvp server and 3k-4k for pve(there's a lot less demand to play on a carebear server) seems very reasonable.

I understand that no one likes to work for free especially for extended periods of time, there needs to be a donation type service when the server launches. This may even include incentives such as certain in-game items or services that do not affect gameplay or the server's economy, such as unique tabards, shirts, maybe even mounts(as long as they've been purchased with ingame gold already), or even character feature changes("haircuts").

Introducing other paid services such as; race/faction changes, realm transfers and anything worse than that tends to ruin servers. The truth is, if the product is good and has a lot of demand, people will be willing to donate to keep it that way.

Another crucial part of any new private server is the content release time-line and the developers' ability to stick to that time-line, no one wants to farm molten core for 8 months. All the content release tables have to be in place before actual launch. Hardcore players want a fast-paced vanilla experience, and vanilla servers should NOT cater to casuals.

Again, I strongly believe that if these devs are able to put forward a product that is on par or better with whats out there right now, money will not be an issue for them, people will donate if they are given what they want.

TLDR: I'm ok with seeing alliance on horde mounts as long as they've paid for them with in-game gold and donated to keep the server going, no one cares about skins.

So just to clarify. I don't think you are correct on PvP vs PvE. Currently PvP is very well catered for (like Kronos I+II) whereas PvE is not after the demise of Nost. So I would predict that for the initial realms the numbers will be equally divided. It's unlikely people will port over from Kronos even if Crestfall is a better emulator, unless they want to level up their toons all over again.

As mentioned above, if they are oversubscribed then the solution is more realms not higher populations.

On generating funds, this will be done through purchasing of vanity pets, unique mounts etc. In otherwords, nothing that will affect actual game play.

Agreed on a) content release and b) developers keeping to plan/schedule/their word.

Last part, as we are still at an early stage of development then people can still influence what happens, up to a point. So rather than speculating on what might be happening, thy might consider actually joining the community there rather than discussing this on a Nost forum. This is also fair to Nost.

http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/

[Cardinalsin]

It only skews the economy if nothing is done about the economy. It's not hard to compensate properly for a higher population. Capping a server so low is just asking for players to go elsewhere. Doesn't really make much sense to make 3 realms when you could just have everyone on one.

It's not like the realms are going to be completely region locked, like retail*.

I don't think the devs want to be spending their time on continually fixing the economy because the population is draining resources. Like I said in the above post, rather than discussing Crestfall third party, why don't you go on the CF forum and take it up with the developers instead? Not least of which, you'll get better and more cogent answers that dealing with people like me.

[smilkovpetko]

first Smit says holy resistance shouldn't exist.. then he says it was replaced by Arcane. then he says all mobs shouldnt have holy resist..then goes on a tangent about abiltiies getting resisted with partials linking wow wiki links.
dude.. seriously stop contradicting yourself in your posts.

im not saying you're wrong, im just debunking your false accusations of holy resistance being completely removed.

but lets remove holy resist on CF and see how that goes. RIP pallies
all abilities wont hit/miss/do any damage because you removed the only spell school the game requires to calculate its function.

basically you would just have abilities that do nothing because there is nothing to calculate its function because you removed holy resistance.

sound logic I say.

you can test it out for yourself actually.

1) Download CMangos 2016.
2) in the database, delete the string "SpellSchool = 1 (SPELL_SCHOOL_HOLY)" from the DB and save it.
3) Run Cmangos online and cast any ability that uses that spell school.
4) Profit.

holy resistance has officially been removed.

Dude correcting "Removed" does not change the meaning of how it is, it is replaced by Arcane Resistance in the "Visible Table" and any Holy Resistance was completely wiped to 0... So basically Holy Resistance is "Non Existent" because it is always 0. That's all the point here, it should never ever exist and it is written by Blizzard.

I am not contradicting at all, just saying that Holy Resistance should not be present at all "That means it should be 0" , and all the patchnotes, link etc confirm that Paladin Ability should not "Full Resist" with exception of "JoC" that work on "1st check melee hit rating".

I am not contradicting anything and this is tremendous problem in all servers....

Holy Resistance should not be present at all (that means complete 0). It was replaced with this intention during 0.9 Patch because it is not meant to exist nor in PVE nor in PVP.

Only level based which again is under 50< where you can't "Full Resist" by any mean with your "Non Binary".

I am not wrong at all and read precisely what i mention : https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 20#p309993

Holy Resistance should not exist or be everywhere 0.

Stop correcting and talking nonsense because i already wrote what is the bug and you contradict this posted with evidence.

1) Download CMangos 2016.
2) in the database, delete the string "SpellSchool = 1 (SPELL_SCHOOL_HOLY)" from the DB and save it.
3) Run Cmangos online and cast any ability that uses that spell school.
4) Profit.

holy resistance has officially been removed.

You are talking about "Spell School" removing , the hell we talk about "Resistance" and not "Spell Removing".

This is where you are getting confused.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Formulas: ... resistance
Note: Level-based resistance (not to be confused with level-based miss) can play a factor in total resists. For every level that a mob has over the player, there is 8 resist (believed; the exact number may be higher) added. For boss fights, this means there is 15-24 resistance added. This extra resistance means there will be partial resists on non-binary spells from the added resistance. However, this resistance has been shown to not apply to binary spells at all.

I already mention precisely that "Partial Resist" exist but it should be never "Full Resist" because 24 means lesser than 50< Table that was explained in my post.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 30#p309999

Non Binary

Resistance Score ---------------------50---100--150---200 -250
Chance to Resist Spell ---------------0%--1%----1%--11% -25%
Chance to Resist 100% Damage --0%---1%---1%--11% -25%
Chance to Resist 75% Damage ----2%---6%--18%-34% -55%
Chance to Resist 50% Damage ----11%-24%-48%-40% -16%
Chance to Resist 25% Damage ----33%-49%-26%-14% -3%
Chance to Take Full Damage --------54%-20%---7%-1% -1%

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_schools_(WoW)#Holy
It is not possible to resist Holy magic, giving it a slight advantage over other schools, but it does have a basic miss chance like all spells, offset by Hit rating, and spells can be silenced.

Do i have to Paint you how it is ??? I said over 100 Times "Miss" for Paladins is by "Melee Hit Rating" so we should never "Full Resist" Seal of Command for example. Because Holy Resistance is 0 "Non Existent".

[ripnost2016]

So just to clarify. I don't think you are correct on PvP vs PvE. Currently PvP is very well catered for (like Kronos I+II) whereas PvE is not after the demise of Nost. So I would predict that for the initial realms the numbers will be equally divided. It's unlikely people will port over from Kronos even if Crestfall is a better emulator, unless they want to level up their toons all over again.

As mentioned above, if they are oversubscribed then the solution is more realms not higher populations.

On generating funds, this will be done through purchasing of vanity pets, unique mounts etc. In otherwords, nothing that will affect actual game play.

Agreed on a) content release and b) developers keeping to plan/schedule/their word.

Last part, as we are still at an early stage of development then people can still influence what happens, up to a point. So rather than speculating on what might be happening, thy might consider actually joining the community there rather than discussing this on a Nost forum. This is also fair to Nost.

http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/

I don't know what rock you live under, but here in our universe the weaker servers tend to die when a clearly better one comes out.

Look at what happened to every private server when Nost came about. People will either sell their acounts, start raid-logging only, or completely stop playing on their current place-holder server (which Kronos, Feenix and Valkyrie currently are). The amount of people that level new characters will decrease dramatically on every server across the board if there's a better server to level on.

I'm also certain that the split between PvP and PvE servers will be something along the lines of 70/30. There's just a higher amount of people that want to play on pvp servers, thats the general consensus.

I understand that you want to keep it blizz-like with 3500 population, and thats ok, I can respect that. Like I said before it is my subjective opinion that the population sweet-spot is a little higher than that by today's standards, of course there's a lot of adjustments that have to be made regarding spawns and whatnot.

If your goal is to create a server that's just like everything out there, I'm sure 3500 cap will be just fine, but if you are in this to make a potentially legendary server like Nostalrius was, be ready to meet the demand by either making multiple pvp servers(one of which will be inferior, because all the hardcore players will pick one and go to it) or raising the population cap and dealing with the consequences.

I already have an account on the crestfall boards, I choose to post here because I want this to gain exposure from this community specifically.
I'm no expert but I think what "isn't fair to Nost" is you posting a link here diverting traffic away from their website to Crestfall's.

[smilkovpetko]

@Crestfall representatives.

Nostalrius biggest issue for Paladins was "non compatible" Gear and Abilities when it is under 1.9 Patch and uses 1.12.1 Talents/Abilities.

Is that true that Crestfall is also that way "Using 1.12.1" Talents/Abilities whiel Gear is 1.2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 etc ?

If it is true that is very bad for Paladins , our 1.9+ Abilities are not working correct with Gear pre 1.9. (2 different worlds) .

[Cardinalsin]

I don't know what rock you live under, but here in our universe the weaker servers tend to die when a clearly better one comes out.

Look at what happened to every private server when Nost came about. People will either sell their acounts, start raid-logging only, or completely stop playing on their current place-holder server (which Kronos, Feenix and Valkyrie currently are). The amount of people that level new characters will decrease dramatically on every server across the board if there's a better server to level on.

I'm also certain that the split between PvP and PvE servers will be something along the lines of 70/30. There's just a higher amount of people that want to play on pvp servers, thats the general consensus.

I understand that you want to keep it blizz-like with 3500 population, and thats ok, I can respect that. Like I said before it is my subjective opinion that the population sweet-spot is a little higher than that by today's standards, of course there's a lot of adjustments that have to be made regarding spawns and whatnot.

If your goal is to create a server that's just like everything out there, I'm sure 3500 cap will be just fine, but if you are in this to make a potentially legendary server like Nostalrius was, be ready to meet the demand by either making multiple pvp servers(one of which will be inferior, because all the hardcore players will pick one and go to it) or raising the population cap and dealing with the consequences.

I already have an account on the crestfall boards, I choose to post here because I want this to gain exposure from this community specifically.
I'm no expert but I think what "isn't fair to Nost" is you posting a link here diverting traffic away from their website to Crestfall's.

If you have an account on Crestfall then why don't you use those forums to express your opinion? The purpose of this thread is to alert people to Crestfall and invite them to go on to the forums and become part of the community. In depth discussions on CF should be on CF.

I don't have an issue posting a link to CF here because Nost servers no longer exist, and in my opinion, are unlikely to ever surface again. Therefore we are providing a potential service to the Nost community, not competition.

There is a massive difference between CF and Nost/Kronos in relation to the emulator they use. CF is not using stock MaNGOS, a lot of the content is being generated from scratch including the loot tables. It will, in my opinion from what I have seen, be a far better product.

There is no intention to emulate Nost or any other server. It will stand by itself good or bad.

Anyway, thanks for your time and interest. Hopefully will see you on the forums soon.

[Cardinalsin]

@Crestfall representatives.

Nostalrius biggest issue for Paladins was "non compatible" Gear and Abilities when it is under 1.9 Patch and uses 1.12.1 Talents/Abilities.

Is that true that Crestfall is also that way "Using 1.12.1" Talents/Abilities whiel Gear is 1.2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 etc ?

If it is true that is very bad for Paladins , our 1.9+ Abilities are not working correct with Gear pre 1.9. (2 different worlds) .

Well, I certainly can't answer that question. You seem to be having an entertaining difference of opinion with Imbaslap and I don't think either party will back down. I do love how passionate you are about paladins though and it may well be the case that you have a very valid issue here.

The only feedback I've received from the lead-developer is that any issues like this will be fixed. But from your point of view talk is cheap. All I can advise is to go on to the Cresfall forums and take it up there with the passion you've shown here and I'll do what I can to support you.

[Keftenk]

It only skews the economy if nothing is done about the economy. It's not hard to compensate properly for a higher population. Capping a server so low is just asking for players to go elsewhere. Doesn't really make much sense to make 3 realms when you could just have everyone on one.

It's not like the realms are going to be completely region locked, like retail*.

I don't think the devs want to be spending their time on continually fixing the economy because the population is draining resources. Like I said in the above post, rather than discussing Crestfall third party, why don't you go on the CF forum and take it up with the developers instead? Not least of which, you'll get better and more cogent answers that dealing with people like me.

>tfw you think ~3500 population locked server wouldn't need economic tuning via Dev's after 1 year, 2 year, 3 years, etc.

No need to go over there truthfully if ~3500 is the cap. The server could be the most pure vanilla experience private server and I still wouldn't migrate simply because I, like the other ~150,000 players wouldn't be able to play on a locked realm. Assuming Crestfall will be of quality which warrants support.

I mean. Just look at what happened with Kronos when Nost went down.