Prot Warrior Guide by Armilus

[Undertanker]

one question.

Cleave is useless as tank? we don't have any effective are threat skill unlike pala that can spam consecration and go afk... suppose in a trash are pull, how we hold agro if demo shout is bugged? challenging got terrible cd !
i was thinking something like this: start in battle stance, charge, thunderclap, go defensive (tactical mastery) +bloodrage>use demo shout+cleave

is wrong? sorry I'm new tank warrior seeking help ^_^

You will read that some tanks don't use cleave. I laugh. Had to dispute this with many other guild MTs.

This is a very useful tool, and you will have plenty of rage for it once you get geared and don't have the need for crowd control on instances like strat UD, or speed clearing BRD for people that need jail break.

Last night for example I ran Strat UD with 2 great mage dps from guild and a rogue. I used cleave almost the entire time, and would shield clam, revenge the primary target. If it was going down too fast to even try to get threat, just taunt it or concuss blow and continue to spam cleave and revenge/shield slam other targets.

5/8 T2 helps a lot with this as very often abilities take 5 less rage to do, and the set can proc per mob you hit. So a demo on 5 targets, 100% chance next move is 5 less rage. Each cleave hits two things so twice the chance for next cleave to only cost 15.

We were pulling Baron with 19 minutes on debuff, I never dropped below 210 dps until the abomination single pulls. To give a comparison, dps were around 300 - 350 depending on their mana, and what not. (speed run so they have to conserve a lil)

TL;DR: It is viable but you need to be aware of what is being hit and focus GCD threat moves on primary target or taunt or stun primary target and use GCD on next mob up. Often if revenge or shield slam is on CD, I'd rend the highest HP target to keep dps going.

[itwasfree]

May be a silly question, but do lower ranks of Demo Shout generate less threat? I've been putting off ranking it up to save some money (I do the same thing with my utility spells: pummel, shield bash, thunder clap, intercept, etc unless the rank improves the effect/CD.)

[Undertanker]

That I do not know. Thunderclap increases duration I believe, and does more damage = slightly more aggro. Demo shout, regardless of threat is good to rank up. If you are going to burn 10 rage using it, why not take less damage as well?

[itwasfree]

That I do not know. Thunderclap increases duration I believe, and does more damage = slightly more aggro. Demo shout, regardless of threat is good to rank up. If you are going to burn 10 rage using it, why not take less damage as well?

Do you actively throw out TCs for aggro generation? (Ranks do increase the duration from 10s to 30s)
[Edit: Just read your response to the other thread, it would appear you do!]

From my impression, the damage is always so low + can only be done in Battle Stance, the threat seems dismal. From a damage reduction standpoint it's nice & the duration is helpful, but I've yet to be in a situation where I've needed it. (I suspect raid tanking would be that situation.)

As for the Demo Shout, you're absolutely right that taking less damage is nice, but so is 10g!...
Actually, when I put it that way... Maybe I'll restrict my non-skill upgrade purchasing to Intercept, Pummel, Shield Bash, & Mocking Blow.

Of course, the real advantage of of not buying skills was just to make sure I had 100g for the mount. Probably not worth the <50g of savings at this point.

[Undertanker]

Any time you are able to charge for an opener, why not thunderclap, you are going to lose the rage when you stance dance anyways.


"I haven't needed it", any time you can reduce your damage taken you are increasing healer mana efficiency, which means you are increasing run times, which means you are increasing your gold per hour. While it may seem small in one run, if it can save you 3-5 minutes of healing drinking an instance, times that but many hundreds I've ran, that is a lot of time saved/damage not taken.

A 10 sec TC is not worth the rage when soloing and you pull and add (fighting two now). But it is worth it when that 20 rage cost goes for 30 seconds.

As a tank, you have 2 jobs. Keep aggro, lower damage intake. That is it. Once job one is established, focus on job two. That includes a stance dance between mob hits to thunderclap. While the damage is low, it is also a debuff, the threat per second is not great, but again this is while you are focusing on job #2 (reducing damage intake).


I got all skills as I went, the only one I could see myself passing on was slam as it is crap while soling due to knockback, and is only a horde arms w/ WF totem viable option. I was a day one player and didn't get my mount till lvl 52 or something. The gold farming mobs were camped so I just focused on enjoying my leveling experience. There are ways to make gold easy now due to inflation, a year ago, things didn't go for much on the AH. Now you can farm things that are level 35-50 and make good gold per hour and forget this gimping as you go idea.

[itwasfree]

Solid advice, appreciate the feedback!

[Dogmeat]

I don't see Shield Bash on your list of threat abilities. Back in the day, it was 2nd only to Revenge in terms of threat per rage used.

I have an old warrior tanking guide written by Ciderhelm way back in the day. It's like 39 pages long. I should copy and post it. But not sure how relevant it will be since the Nost version has differences from the original vanilla.

[Dogmeat]

Also, was doing some google searches recently and came across some Elitist Jerks threads from back in the vanilla days. You can get on their forums and they still have threads from the vanilla days accessible to read. Threads from 2005-2006 are all still there. TONS of great info to be had on there for anyone interested.

[Undertanker]

180 based threat pre threat modifiers and not including damage done:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=16499

So it is greater than a with non Imp sunder (15 rage) if shield bash crits a low armor target. If you have imp sunder, sunder will win in threat per rage.

[Undertanker]

Two suggested changes to the guide.

Thunderfury is 25% proc rate now, so the TPS vs Alcors is off a bit.

Taunt:

It is stated if it is fighting you it does nothing. The debiff to force to attack you regains. So if a mob is on you but dps is hitting it hard and you know you will lose aggro, taunt it. You can ignote that add knowing dps have 6 seconds to kill it regardless of how much threat they have the "forced to attack you" still applies.

This is used on mobs that perform a threat drop such as beserkers in ZG.



Request:

Threat per rage is something a lot of people struggle with off tanking Hakkar/Broodlord/Razorgore and MTZ Onxyia, and feel a bit more information is needed.

Shield slam vs sunder / imp sunder.

Using a 168 base SBV. Which is better and if it is Sunder / imp Sunder, what % of crit is needed for Shield Slam to win. (for a non Thunderfury tank, since TF can proc off Sunder)