Why isn't dual wield Fury the best leveling spec?

[Vanill]

Vanill wrote:
Hit chance

next time read the post before commenting.

I did read it, my answer remains the same.. Wasn't interested in writing a whole lot and from what I've read / experienced myself I came to the simple conlusion that my short answer sufficed. Even with all the arguments the thread creator gave, his original question to which I responded remained the same.

Did I lvl purely using 2H fury? no, I switched depending on which gear I had at hand but that was not the question he asked.

Have you said anything useful trying to contribute to this thread? no...

[Amkô]

I started leveling as Arms, then got Whirlwind Axe and continued leveling as Arms.

With lvl42 it was a lil bit boring and I got that polearm from Uldaman (lvl42), because of its speed (2,7) I leveld 2h Fury then.

Wasn't too bad (but not as good as Arms with WW-Axe) and I thougth NVM til lvl51 I will play with it because of the weapon skill for Ice Barbed Spear.

lvl 51 --> No Spear for me because of the "highlevel" Players always talking shi.t to the "Korrak-Hopers".

I bought a Flurry Axe and played DW then with Thrash Blade in my MH.
Was the most single target damage I had til then, with +1% Hit (Hinterlands Trinket).
Because it was so good I even decided to buy Axe of the deep woods, which was a really strong combo for me even for lvl60 PVE in the future (orc, pre60 not worth the +5 Skill, but at 60 still very viable weapons pre Raid).

The thing about DW was for me, that World-PvP became a pain. No MS, No fat burst with Crits on cloth-wearer and so on.

I leveled til lvl55 with that combo. Killing mobs was really smooth, pvp was a pain.

I went another time into AV and got the Spear --> Specced Arms again and now I am happy.
Killing mobs is not as fast as with the two 1h Axes BUT I got more burst (some mobs die really really fast) and MS for PvP and Sweeping Strikes for leveling.

Cleaving mobs with Fury was not so cool as it is with SweepingStrikes. For leveling it is really cool and nice. Even for dungeons as DPS its brutal to cleave the thrash mobs with it ^^

I would recommend Arms for leveling. Fury on a Pve-Server I think. But here you will be ganked (Nost-PVP) and IMO as Fury you dont have a chance then

[vido]

Arms is the best pve dungeon spec by far when you get sweeping strikes. Trash pulls usually align with the cooldown making it really overpowered especially if you can pull aggro on a mob and /sit to enrage proc.

[sownu]

Your math is wrong. You don't take the average dps of a two hander compared to the average dps of a main hand, 50% off hand and -19%. You are forgetting about dps added from attack power.

For example: my level 50 Warrior is using a two-hander with average dps of 42. With my ~750 ap, he gets an added 40 dps. with a 5% chance to miss my dps is 78 all white. Or:
(42+40)*0.95 = 77.9

With optimal gear fury warriors at that level would be using 35dps one-handers:
(35+17.5+40)*0.81 = 74.9

With dual-wield specialization:
(35+22+40)*0.81 = 78.6

Flurry I won't consider more beneficial for DW than 2-handers while leveling since at that point no warrior has enough crit to near maintain flurry.

So, DW has more white dps by less than 1% (discounting ap from Battle Shout, which actually puts 2h back in the lead). But I don't care about white dps. My slams and WWs hit harder than my BTs. They also miss less than yellow attacks for DW.

Also, while DW may have "smoother" rage gen, it doesn't have better rage gen.

That is not right really. You add 40dps from AP once only to DW, when actually you should add it once to MH and then 50% to OH.

I just assumed it adds same to 2H and DW and it seems im wrong, BUT it seems to make DW even more better.

Also, about Flurry. I see it as a flat 30% (white) dps increase that you gain on crits. Since DW you hit (and therefore crit) about 3 times as much, you should generally have 3 times better flurry uptime regardless of crit chance, making Flurry 3 times as valuable for DW assuming low crit chances. When you get close to max Flurry uptime with 2H OR DW, obviously its same value regardless of 2H or DW. (I might be completely wrong about this tho)

Edit:

Gains from Flurry using your example of weapons and AP:

82 * 3 = 246 AVERAGE HIT (every 3 seconds) > 246 * 0.3 = 73.8 * 3 = 221.4 damage GAINED FROM FLURRY

75 * 2.5 + 42 * 2.5 = (187.5 + 105) * 0.81 = 236.925 AVERAGE HIT / 2 (since 2 hits every 2.5 seconds actually) = 118.4625 * 0.3 * 3 = 106.61625 damage GAINED FROM FLURRY

Ok, so you gain roughly 50% of damage from each flurry using DW compared to 2H, to make DW flurry > 2H flurry you would need to hit twice + as many times and get twice + as many flurries:

3.5 2H = 17 hits a minute

2.5 MH = 24 * 0.81 = 19.44 hits a minute
1.5 OH = 40 * 0.81 = 40 hits a minute

= 3x as many attacks using DW = Flurry is 50% more dps for DW than for 2H



Actual DW vs 2H dps using your example of weapons and AP:

(42+40)*0.95 = 77.9

With optimal gear fury warriors at that level would be using 35dps one-handers:
(35+17.5+40+20)*0.81 = 91.125

With dual-wield specialization:
(35+22+40+30)*0.81 = 102.87

[Lingon]

Flurry is consumed faster with dual wield, and more is spent on "useless" OH attacks when you use a fast OH.

[Irachkom]

1. Overpower is main ability up to lvl 40
2. Mortal Strike is main abilitty at lvl 40+

Overpower+MS+(19% to hit)+Itemization(twice easy to get 1 good weapon than 2)

Arms is your best way to lvl up.

Imp Overpower
Imp 2H
Deep Wounds(they are op during lvling, since most times dot will deal ALL dmg 12sec)
Sword/Axe spec
Sweeeeping strikes!
Much powerfull Retaliation than dual wield
Mortal Strike.


5% to crit, imp BS, Enrage, DW and even Flurry/BT cant compensate it.

[Amkô]

1. Overpower is main ability up to lvl 40
2. Mortal Strike is main abilitty at lvl 40+

Overpower+MS+(19% to hit)+Itemization(twice easy to get 1 good weapon than 2)

Arms is your best way to lvl up.

Imp Overpower
Imp 2H
Deep Wounds(they are op during lvling, since most times dot will deal ALL dmg 12sec)
Sword/Axe spec
Sweeeeping strikes!
Much powerfull Retaliation than dual wield
Mortal Strike.


5% to crit, imp BS, Enrage, DW and even Flurry/BT cant compensate it.

You forgot:

Whirlwind Axe (til Uldaman Weapons, if event not bugged at the end, otherwise til IBS or buying a new Weapon at AH)
Probably Ice Barbed Spear

[sownu]

Flurry is consumed faster with dual wield, and more is spent on "useless" OH attacks when you use a fast OH.

Yes however you get a lot more flurries using DW and that makes up for spending it on fast attacks. Flurry is more effective for DW at low crit.

1. Overpower is main ability up to lvl 40
2. Mortal Strike is main abilitty at lvl 40+

Overpower+MS+(19% to hit)+Itemization(twice easy to get 1 good weapon than 2)

Arms is your best way to lvl up.

Imp Overpower
Imp 2H
Deep Wounds(they are op during lvling, since most times dot will deal ALL dmg 12sec)
Sword/Axe spec
Sweeeeping strikes!
Much powerfull Retaliation than dual wield
Mortal Strike.


5% to crit, imp BS, Enrage, DW and even Flurry/BT cant compensate it.

All of those early arms talents are way worse than flat 5% crit and flat 25% damage increase from enrage.

If you talk about overpower, realise that DW hits three times as much as 2H and gets 3 times as much overpowers.

Sweeping strikes are the only thing you really gain from arms.

How much more damage Mortal strike even does compared to BT assuming good gear ? Difference is not that huge.

Arms is a gimped leveling spec that i can see only used in PvP and even then its 40+ and i think thats given, im talking DW fury vs 2H fury.

Only levels to go 2H in my opion after research are 30-36 if you get your ww weapon right at 30 since there are no clear one hand replacements for that.

[Amkô]

@Sownu:

But you dont have good gear before lvl60. Yeah ofc a few items from the AH, but that's it!

I leveled as Arms (lvl30 WW Axe) till lvl42 where I got the Polearm from Uldaman (2,7 Speed) and played 2h Fury then.

Then I played DW with Thrashblade (MH) and Flurry Axe (OH) and then replaced Thrashblade with Axe of deep Woods.

Now I am playing Arms again (now I am lvl58) with IBS and it is smoother and better to level now due burst damage and Sweeping Strikes (also very OP in dungeons!)
Overpower is another great ability with a nice 2-Hander.

MS is doing a lot more dmg than bloodthirst with my current gear. (Got some blues tho, still Berserk Helm from SM, lvl46 BoE Shoulders, Frostwolf Cape, Frostwolf Girdle, Hinterlands Elite Qs Items (Neck and Trinket)..)
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... =Amk%C3%B4

When I "upgrade" my hit rating and get more attack power tho, I will respecc to DW again (when done with PvP) of course, because it's the single target dps specc for Warriors.

But again, thats my opinion and I tested really all of this speccs, and since MS is much cooler with lower gear, Arms is the specc to go for me.

[sownu]

@Sownu:

But you dont have good gear before lvl60. Yeah ofc a few items from the AH, but that's it!

I leveled as Arms (lvl30 WW Axe) till lvl42 where I got the Polearm from Uldaman (2,7 Speed) and played 2h Fury then.

Then I played DW with Thrashblade (MH) and Flurry Axe (OH) and then replaced Thrashblade with Axe of deep Woods.

Now I am playing Arms again (now I am lvl58) with IBS and it is smoother and better to level now due burst damage and Sweeping Strikes (also very OP in dungeons!)
Overpower is another great ability with a nice 2-Hander.

MS is doing a lot more dmg than bloodthirst with my current gear. (Got some blues tho, still Berserk Helm from SM, lvl46 BoE Shoulders, Frostwolf Cape, Frostwolf Girdle, Hinterlands Elite Qs Items (Neck and Trinket)..)
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... =Amk%C3%B4

When I "upgrade" my hit rating and get more attack power tho, I will respecc to DW again (when done with PvP) of course, because it's the single target dps specc for Warriors.

But again, thats my opinion and I tested really all of this speccs, and since MS is much cooler with lower gear, Arms is the specc to go for me.

True, i also dont think difference is that big and that it is largely dependant on weapons you can get as a blue 2H will always (maybe always) outperform green one-hands. I find it hard to believe that IBS outperforms weps that are actually useful at 60 though. (im planning on using Krol blade + thrashblade with crusaders 51+ till im pre-raid bis since i hate av)

Personal preference and PvP are valid reasons to go arms though, i agree. However currently my lowbie 20-26 warr using two blue weps is recking mobs left and right and is honestly best leveling experience iv had (im talking double/triple pulls in duskwood + adds > bandage and keep going. > faster than hunters/rogues/warlocks whoever and no mana breaks)