TPS weapons

[Armilus]

Good thing I was talking about 2 weapons with the same attack speed.

Basically, the only time the damage of the weapon really matters is if the difference is high enough that your auto attacks are generating more rage. When you have unlimited rage it doesn't change anything but for those low-rage situations it can be HUGE.

Your talking about how damage affects rage generated in general, not for a specific case. That's what you wrote literally. This isn't about 2 weapons with the same attack speed as in the comparison before.

Edit: The DAMAGE cause by your auto attacks determines the amount of rage generated. It is calculated with this formula [<weapon damage> + (ap/14) * <weapon speed>]. If you have two weapons with the exact same speed but one has just high enough damage to generate 1 more rage per auto attack it is far better than the other weapon.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/index.php?title=Rage&oldid=195687 Lets look at the rage for damage dealt formula (olds revs is dated back to even 2005)

Current Level * 0.5 = 1 Rage
For example, at level 60 it takes 30 damage to generate 1 rage

I never seen your formula before tbh, where did you find it? It looks like(???) you're using a modified formula of weapon dps

((Min Weapon Damage + Max Weapon Damage) / 2) / Weapon Speed
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Damage_per_second

adding the DPS attack power adds. However there is no need for that (unless you want to include +weapon damage enchants and sharpening stones into calculation, just use the DPS the weapon says).

Since 30 damage dealt at 60 gives you 1 rage the damage gap between each rage gained is neglible, weapons have their min-max damage ranges already and you can change your output greatly with buffs and consumables. Whether you gain 3 or 4 rage can't be narrowed down to what weapon you use. So the whole thing with having a weapon that usually generates 1 more rage is just a hoax, millions of combinations of buffs, enchants, consumables and gear can alter the rage gain easily anyways. Infact the only way it would be relevant would be if stats didn't improve weapon damage at all.

You're forgetting that weapon skill will give hit aswell. 5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1% formula is whats used to calculate your miss chance against a target when the different in your weapon skill and targets defense skill is less than or equal to 10. In the case of human warriors who have 305 sword/mace skill attacking a boss with 315 defense using a sword/mace will actually decrease your chance to miss by 2% which means using sword/mace against a boss gives you 2% more hit as human warrior. Although, this won't change the rankings of weapons significantly but it's noteworthy.

What's your source, wowwiki? That's untrue, 5 weapon skill reduces your chance to miss by 0.20%.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Weapon_skill says

The base chance for your attack to miss the mob:
If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is less than or equal to 10 then the formula for calculating your base miss chance against that mob is: 5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%
If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10, then the formula for calculating your base miss chance against that mob is: 6% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%

Now, put the numbers into the formula and see what you get. With 305 weapon skill against a 315 defense target (bosses are level 63) you should get 6% chance to miss instead of 8% that you would get with 300 weapon skill. 8-6=2% less chance to miss or 2% more hit whatever.

It's not untrue, infact I used to think the 0,04% hit formula applied all the time just like you but that's only if you would get over 315 weapon skill. Feel free to read through the wiki and see for yourself and you'll see there's 3 different formulas depending on your weapon skill and attackers defense skill.

I have no idea what you are even going on about. I made a very simple statement.

I said that the ONLY time the damage really matters on your weapon when all you are worried about is threat is if somehow you are going to generate more rage with that weapon. I didn't bother explaining all of the game mechanics involved but you seem to think you are disagreeing with me and then going into a great deal of effort to explain the game mechanics and in the end you come to the same conclusion as my original statement.

The damage is really not important.

Are you REALLY suggesting that my original statement should have read:

Basically, the only time the DPS of the weapon really matters is if the difference is high enough that your auto attacks are generating more rage. When you have unlimited rage it doesn't change anything but for those low-rage situations it can be HUGE.

Because if you are, that makes no god damn sense at all. A 2.8 speed weapon with 50dps is still going to be substantially shittier than a 1.3 speed weapon with 30dps. Are you maybe suggesting that the damage on your weapon is actually important in ANY other situation?

I honestly can't figure out what you are disagreeing with me on here.

[Plask]

I have no idea what you are even going on about. I made a very simple statement.

I said that the ONLY time the damage really matters on your weapon when all you are worried about is threat is if somehow you are going to generate more rage with that weapon. I didn't bother explaining all of the game mechanics involved but you seem to think you are disagreeing with me and then going into a great deal of effort to explain the game mechanics and in the end you come to the same conclusion as my original statement.

The damage is really not important.

Are you REALLY suggesting that my original statement should have read:

Basically, the only time the DPS of the weapon really matters is if the difference is high enough that your auto attacks are generating more rage. When you have unlimited rage it doesn't change anything but for those low-rage situations it can be HUGE.

Because if you are, that makes no god damn sense at all. A 2.8 speed weapon with 50dps is still going to be substantially shittier than a 1.3 speed weapon with 30dps. Are you maybe suggesting that the damage on your weapon is actually important in ANY other situation?

I honestly can't figure out what you are disagreeing with me on here.

Mainly this statement

Edit: The DAMAGE cause by your auto attacks determines the amount of rage generated. It is calculated with this formula [<weapon damage> + (ap/14) * <weapon speed>]. If you have two weapons with the exact same speed but one has just high enough damage to generate 1 more rage per auto attack it is far better than the other weapon.

[Grave]

Eskhander's Right Claw shouldn't be ignored, only mentioned once I believe. Depends completely on how much it procs on Nostalrius, but with the proc you'd have 1.15 seconds HS's. (R.I.P. Heroic Strike key)

Personally I will just stick to my trusty Alcor's, however I like to have a slow weapon (Quel'Serrar currently) for rage starved fights.

[Undertanker]

TPS on current content is an Onxyia only issue. I too run Quel as even when you are def capped, 8 def gives 0.98 mitigation from dodge parry miss. So the 13 def proc and 300 armor is sweet. Proc rate is close to 2x crusader which I am running until 15 agi is available.

[Undertanker]

@Grave, yes depends on proc, but it is an item I will be going after and testing. Will be my Onxyia / Val weapon.

[St0rfan]

TPS on current content is an Onxyia only issue. I too run Quel as even when you are def capped, 8 def gives 0.98 mitigation from dodge parry miss. So the 13 def proc and 300 armor is sweet. Proc rate is close to 2x crusader which I am running until 15 agi is available.

Are you alliance or horde? And are you impale spec?

[osa]

1. Thunderfury.
2. The Hungering Cold.
3. The Widows Remorse
4. Alcor's Sunrazor.
5. Finkle's Skinner.
6. ZG caster dagger/MC Caster dagger.

Now, this is a very rough approximation, and there may be some fault to it. Alcor's value is somewhat diminished through MC/BWL due to the proc not adding anything on Fire resistant bosses (though the speed is its main allure). TFs value is somewhat diminished in AQ40 with Nature resistant mobs and bosses but is still likely better than Alcor's.

TL;DR. TF wont be beaten by any weapon in vanilla. Any tank that cant get TF will be using Alcor's far into Naxx before upgrading.

- Iblis ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23014
- Harbinger of Doom ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23044
- Death's Sting ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21126
- Blessed Qiraji Pugio ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21244
- Bloodlord's Defender
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19867
- Silithid Claw
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21673
etc...
you miss a lot of better weapon than Alcor the threat come from HS is from damage so if the dmg from the HS > than the speed of the lower dps weapon i think alcors is very nice to start but since we get AQ alcors is not good anymore.
for me its more the feel i have with the weapon / boss / gear i have than a typical TC thing (yeah i dont say go for 2.6 or more than 2.2 but you know ! so i like play with weapon ~~1.6=>2.0

and BTW for the thunderfury i read back in days 2005/2006 somewhere on elitistjerk that TF is like a "theoretical" ~~90Dps weapon due to the Nature dmg (ignore armor) and on the horde side with Storm-strike (+20% nature dmg) its far the better weapon on any circumstance (not for a imun nature boss but well :p)

[St0rfan]

1. Thunderfury.
2. The Hungering Cold.
3. The Widows Remorse
4. Alcor's Sunrazor.
5. Finkle's Skinner.
6. ZG caster dagger/MC Caster dagger.

Now, this is a very rough approximation, and there may be some fault to it. Alcor's value is somewhat diminished through MC/BWL due to the proc not adding anything on Fire resistant bosses (though the speed is its main allure). TFs value is somewhat diminished in AQ40 with Nature resistant mobs and bosses but is still likely better than Alcor's.

TL;DR. TF wont be beaten by any weapon in vanilla. Any tank that cant get TF will be using Alcor's far into Naxx before upgrading.

- Iblis ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23014
- Harbinger of Doom ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23044
- Death's Sting ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21126
- Blessed Qiraji Pugio ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21244
- Bloodlord's Defender
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19867
- Silithid Claw
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21673
etc...
you miss a lot of better weapon than Alcor the threat come from HS is from damage so if the dmg from the HS > than the speed of the lower dps weapon i think alcors is very nice to start but since we get AQ alcors is not good anymore.
for me its more the feel i have with the weapon / boss / gear i have than a typical TC thing (yeah i dont say go for 2.6 or more than 2.2 but you know ! so i like play with weapon ~~1.6=>2.0

and BTW for the thunderfury i read back in days 2005/2006 somewhere on elitistjerk that TF is like a "theoretical" ~~90Dps weapon due to the Nature dmg (ignore armor) and on the horde side with Storm-strike (+20% nature dmg) its far the better weapon on any circumstance (not for a imun nature boss but well :p)

Read what Plask and Armilus have said in earlier posts. Alcor's, despite its low DPS would still land in the top 3 TPS weapons in game and that includes AQ and Naxx daggers aswell. It isnt the damage of the heroic strike that is the driving TPS factor, it is the ability to produce as many heroicstrikes as possible in a give time-frame (i.e having a super-fast weapon). For the same reason, even finkles skinner will out-perform most AQ/Naxx weapons for pure TPS.

EDIT: Regarding TF you are corrent. Infact, TF DPS with procs included actually lands at around 100dps, which is one of the reasons why it was still the best tanking weapon until you got Brutalizer in Black Temple in TBC.

[Plask]

1. Thunderfury.
2. The Hungering Cold.
3. The Widows Remorse
4. Alcor's Sunrazor.
5. Finkle's Skinner.
6. ZG caster dagger/MC Caster dagger.

Now, this is a very rough approximation, and there may be some fault to it. Alcor's value is somewhat diminished through MC/BWL due to the proc not adding anything on Fire resistant bosses (though the speed is its main allure). TFs value is somewhat diminished in AQ40 with Nature resistant mobs and bosses but is still likely better than Alcor's.

TL;DR. TF wont be beaten by any weapon in vanilla. Any tank that cant get TF will be using Alcor's far into Naxx before upgrading.

- Iblis ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23014
- Harbinger of Doom ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23044
- Death's Sting ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21126
- Blessed Qiraji Pugio ?
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21244
- Bloodlord's Defender
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19867
- Silithid Claw
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21673
etc...
you miss a lot of better weapon than Alcor the threat come from HS is from damage so if the dmg from the HS > than the speed of the lower dps weapon i think alcors is very nice to start but since we get AQ alcors is not good anymore.
for me its more the feel i have with the weapon / boss / gear i have than a typical TC thing (yeah i dont say go for 2.6 or more than 2.2 but you know ! so i like play with weapon ~~1.6=>2.0

and BTW for the thunderfury i read back in days 2005/2006 somewhere on elitistjerk that TF is like a "theoretical" ~~90Dps weapon due to the Nature dmg (ignore armor) and on the horde side with Storm-strike (+20% nature dmg) its far the better weapon on any circumstance (not for a imun nature boss but well :p)

Read what Plask and Armilus have said in earlier posts. Alcor's, despite its low DPS would still land in the top 3 TPS weapons in game and that includes AQ and Naxx daggers aswell. It isnt the damage of the heroic strike that is the driving TPS factor, it is the ability to produce as many heroicstrikes as possible in a give time-frame (i.e having a super-fast weapon). For the same reason, even finkles skinner will out-perform most AQ/Naxx weapons for pure TPS.

EDIT: Regarding TF you are corrent. Infact, TF DPS with procs included actually lands at around 100dps, which is one of the reasons why it was still the best tanking weapon until you got Brutalizer in Black Temple in TBC.

It's not only the highest DPS weapon, the three procs it has also generates threat which is what makes it go past the other weapons. The speed is horrible though. Imagine how much better it could have been lol.

[Drudlo]

I've done some calculations to check what weapon give the highest TPS. These values are for a human warrior(+5 wep skill to sword/mace).
To do the calculations I assume there is rage to use HS on every attack and check how much TPS you get from those HS'. I assume there is a flat 15% crit chance and 0% hit from gear.

My results where as following

Here you can see that the most important thing for TPS is the weapon speed. The second most important stat is weaponskill/hit.

PS. At the moment I do not take into consideration any +ap(or strength/agility) from weapons, only hit/crit/wepskill.