Why isn't dual wield Fury the best leveling spec?

[Irachkom]

its amazing to me how wrong people can be in the face of numbers and an overwelming consensus. fury is better. hands down. arms is too slow, period.

again, dual wield is shit while leveling because of 50% OH dmg and 19% more miss chance.

Also fury early talents are pretty useless compaired to arms(Overpower, 5% dmg, Deep wounds) imp Rend btw is pretty cool too at low lvls.

Fury is total shit up you get lvl60, at least +5% to hit and at least ~40dps weapons.

[Drain]

"Why isn't dual wield Fury the best leveling spec?"
Uh... it is? If you bother to apply the math, it has a higher dps at practically every level unless you simply over level the 2h. The Whirlwind Axe for example isn't worth using over the dual 1h swords you can get right off dungeon quests. Every Warrior swinging this thing in the 40s is doing less than they could have been doing. The Humans are the most stupid, as they choose an inferior 2h axe over 2x superior 1h swords.

I should point out that if they still haven't fixed the quest, you can get 2x Outlaw Sabres repeating a quest in BFD. I dual wielded this quest reward on 3 characters now. For the Hunter, they had great AP to shoot with.

[Irachkom]

"Why isn't dual wield Fury the best leveling spec?"
Uh... it is? If you bother to apply the math, it has a higher dps at practically every level unless you simply over level the 2h. The Whirlwind Axe for example isn't worth using over the dual 1h swords you can get right off dungeon quests. Every Warrior swinging this thing in the 40s is doing less than they could have been doing. The Humans are the most stupid, as they choose an inferior 2h axe over 2x superior 1h swords.

I should point out that if they still haven't fixed the quest, you can get 2x Outlaw Sabres repeating a quest in BFD. I dual wielded this quest reward on 3 characters now. For the Hunter, they had great AP to shoot with.

oke, 2x 1H (Sword of Serenity and RFD quest) 30 DPS VS Bonebiter(2H axe SMquest)

38.8 DPS 2H
VS
(30 DPS + 30*0,5)*0,8= 45*0,8= 36 DPS...

And ofc, with dual wield you will get many times for miss-dodge-miss-miss-hit-miss-hit etc...
Vote for ARMS!

[sownu]

"Why isn't dual wield Fury the best leveling spec?"
Uh... it is? If you bother to apply the math, it has a higher dps at practically every level unless you simply over level the 2h. The Whirlwind Axe for example isn't worth using over the dual 1h swords you can get right off dungeon quests. Every Warrior swinging this thing in the 40s is doing less than they could have been doing. The Humans are the most stupid, as they choose an inferior 2h axe over 2x superior 1h swords.

I should point out that if they still haven't fixed the quest, you can get 2x Outlaw Sabres repeating a quest in BFD. I dual wielded this quest reward on 3 characters now. For the Hunter, they had great AP to shoot with.

oke, 2x 1H (Sword of Serenity and RFD quest) 30 DPS VS Bonebiter(2H axe SMquest)

38.8 DPS 2H
VS
(30 DPS + 30*0,5)*0,8= 45*0,8= 36 DPS...

And ofc, with dual wield you will get many times for miss-dodge-miss-miss-hit-miss-hit etc...
Vote for ARMS!

With dw specialization its 38.8 DPS VS 42 DPS. We also figured out before, that you get more DPS added from AP when dual wielding.

"many times for miss-dodge-miss-miss-hit-miss-hit" > this doesn't make any sense whatsoever if you think more than 2 seconds about it.

25% damage from enrage >>> all arms talents combined

I think now we can all agree on this order (difference is not big though):

1) DW fury
2) 2H fury
3) Arms

assuming same ilvl weapons.

And only reason to spec arms is for pvp, and even then only 40+

again, dual wield is shit while leveling because of 50% OH dmg and 19% more miss chance.

Why does everyone parrot this misinformation?

It's BETTER than 2h if you account for dw specialization OR bonus dps gained from AP when using 2 weapons.

Also fury early talents are pretty useless compaired to arms(Overpower, 5% dmg, Deep wounds) imp Rend btw is pretty cool too at low lvls.

So "pretty cool" is your reasoning why arms is better?

For pure leveling at low levels DW overpower >>>>>>> Imp overpower talent ( think about it a little)

Deep wounds is 3% dps or something like that. Imp rend is useless.

5% dmg = 5% crit.

Since you get 5% crit before any decent arms talent AND you get Enrage before rest of good arms talents, there is zero point to spec arms at all.

[sownu]

Theres one thing that might make 2H better though, and its optimal use of Slam.

Then you would have to compare loss of DW dps/DW specialization VS increased DPS from using Slam. (optimal use of slam as well, as shitty use of slam will be dps loss in any case)

[Brion]

Theres one thing that might make 2H better though, and its optimal use of Slam.

Then you would have to compare loss of DW dps/DW specialization VS increased DPS from using Slam. (optimal use of slam as well, as shitty use of slam will be dps loss in any case)

I wouldn't consider Slam to be useful while leveling. I am rage starved enough just using Bloodthirst. Really the only thing that seems to make 2h fury better than 2h arms is Enrage. My crit is so low that Flurry is a bonus that is not reliable, but Enrage is basically up 100% of the time.

[squishums]

None of you is right.

By far the best way to level a warrior is 1h+shield fury with a /sit macro. There is nothing wrong with having a second weapon though, and binding a macro to switch to/from DW sometimes.

A quick summary of the benefits:

Shield Bash. You get an interrupt at level 12 instead of 38.

Shields give you mitigation. And the effect is larger than you would expect. While you are grinding, your health is not only going down, but also up (from blood craze, bandages, natural regen, food). If you are approaching a point where grinding is self-sufficient, mitigation can have a huge effect. Imagine you are taking on average 10 damage per second, and regenerating on average 7 damage per second. Eventually you will have to stop and eat. But, if you put on a shield and get ~25% more mitigation, you will only take 7.5 damage per second. You will not be virtually self-sufficient, or to be more precise, you will be able to go 6 times longer without needing to sit down and eat.

/sit macro is less punishing. You can keep bloodcraze and enrage up 100% of the time by sitting down to be crit on purpose. With a shield on the crits are less painful.

Leveling does not involve either of the conditions in which 2H and DW shine. 2H does lots of damage because of instant attacks. Until whirlwind, you have none. DW does lots of damage because of good gear. While leveling, your gear is shit. Its tempting to think that 2H or DW will do twice as much dps as a 1H because they require twice as many hands, but its actually ~x1.25.

Compared to 2H, heroic strike "costs" less rage and does more dps. HS replaces your autoattack so you do not get rage from it. If a weapon is twice as fast as another (1.8 vs 3.6 for example), the hidden extra cost of HS is half as much. Also, you can HS back-to-back to kill things that try to heal when they get low.

Comapred to DW, your damage is more reliable. Nothing is worse than trying to solo a difficult mob, and at the critical moment all you see is miss miss miss miss and then you die.

[zmandude24]

Two words: You missed.

[Armilus]

Also fury early talents are pretty useless compaired to arms(Overpower, 5% dmg, Deep wounds) imp Rend btw is pretty cool too at low lvls.

Uh... what? Did you even look at the Fury tree before posting?

5% crit, AoE slow to save your ass when you get in too deep, Enrage (25% increased damage for 12s after being crit), Death Wish (20% damage increase, only reduces armor by 20%) and Flurry (30% dps increase for 3 swings after you crit).

All that compared to Overpower and 5% damage... You're nuts if you think arms is better before level 40.

I'm currently leveling 2H Fury (lvl 25) and it's going great but I have a lvl 60 main to fund a new blue 2H with Fiery enchant every 5 levels.

IMO, 2H Fury is fastest, sword and board fury is easiest. Once you hit 40 go MS.

[sownu]

None of you is right.

By far the best way to level a warrior is 1h+shield fury with a /sit macro. There is nothing wrong with having a second weapon though, and binding a macro to switch to/from DW sometimes.

A quick summary of the benefits:

Shield Bash. You get an interrupt at level 12 instead of 38.

Shields give you mitigation. And the effect is larger than you would expect. While you are grinding, your health is not only going down, but also up (from blood craze, bandages, natural regen, food). If you are approaching a point where grinding is self-sufficient, mitigation can have a huge effect. Imagine you are taking on average 10 damage per second, and regenerating on average 7 damage per second. Eventually you will have to stop and eat. But, if you put on a shield and get ~25% more mitigation, you will only take 7.5 damage per second. You will not be virtually self-sufficient, or to be more precise, you will be able to go 6 times longer without needing to sit down and eat.

/sit macro is less punishing. You can keep bloodcraze and enrage up 100% of the time by sitting down to be crit on purpose. With a shield on the crits are less painful.

Leveling does not involve either of the conditions in which 2H and DW shine. 2H does lots of damage because of instant attacks. Until whirlwind, you have none. DW does lots of damage because of good gear. While leveling, your gear is shit. Its tempting to think that 2H or DW will do twice as much dps as a 1H because they require twice as many hands, but its actually ~x1.25.

Compared to 2H, heroic strike "costs" less rage and does more dps. HS replaces your autoattack so you do not get rage from it. If a weapon is twice as fast as another (1.8 vs 3.6 for example), the hidden extra cost of HS is half as much. Also, you can HS back-to-back to kill things that try to heal when they get low.

Comapred to DW, your damage is more reliable. Nothing is worse than trying to solo a difficult mob, and at the critical moment all you see is miss miss miss miss and then you die.

its not 1.25, more like 1.5-1.75

For obvious reasons its always better to kill mobs faster and bandage/eat than to kill mobs slower and use less bandages or food, unless damage in vs damage out ratio gets too extreme (dont sit in berserker stance only because of 3% crit for example)

Even if you eat to full every 3 mobs, you will still be faster using 2h/dw IF average mob kill takes 20seconds and you do 1.25x dps of 1h+shield.