Why isn't dual wield Fury the best leveling spec?

[squishums]

its not 1.25, more like 1.5-1.75

For obvious reasons its always better to kill mobs faster and bandage/eat than to kill mobs slower and use less bandages or food, unless damage in vs damage out ratio gets too extreme (dont sit in berserker stance only because of 3% crit for example)

Even if you eat to full every 3 mobs, you will still be faster using 2h/dw IF average mob kill takes 20seconds and you do 1.25x dps of 1h+shield.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?quest=1053

Look at the rewards from that quest. Presumably they are representative of weapons of equal quality. The 2H is 1.29x more dps than the 1Hs. DW vs 1H is similar too because 1.5*(1-0.19)=1.22, and 1.625*(1-0.19)=1.32. Attack power does not change anything for DW vs 1H, but it actually makes the difference between 2H and 1H SMALLER.

Regarding speed vs longevity, that is subjective. I like to get in a rhythm grinding, and eating to full distracts me. Having to eat frequently also implies that you are more at risk of dying if a pull goes badly or if mobs keep fleeing into other mobs.

[sownu]

its not 1.25, more like 1.5-1.75

For obvious reasons its always better to kill mobs faster and bandage/eat than to kill mobs slower and use less bandages or food, unless damage in vs damage out ratio gets too extreme (dont sit in berserker stance only because of 3% crit for example)

Even if you eat to full every 3 mobs, you will still be faster using 2h/dw IF average mob kill takes 20seconds and you do 1.25x dps of 1h+shield.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?quest=1053

Look at the rewards from that quest. Presumably they are representative of weapons of equal quality. The 2H is 1.29x more dps than the 1Hs. DW vs 1H is similar too because 1.5*(1-0.19)=1.22, and 1.625*(1-0.19)=1.32. Attack power does not change anything for DW vs 1H, but it actually makes the difference between 2H and 1H SMALLER.

Regarding speed vs longevity, that is subjective. I like to get in a rhythm grinding, and eating to full distracts me. Having to eat frequently also implies that you are more at risk of dying if a pull goes badly or if mobs keep fleeing into other mobs.

Attack power gets added twice to DW. DPS from attack power gets added to MH once and then again to OH (with penalty)

Trading ~30% damage for ~10% less damage taken is retarded. Even if it was 30% vs 30% it would still be stupid.

If Joe kills 100 mobs in 5 minutes and spends 3 bandages and 5 food, while George kills 70 mobs in 5 minutes and spends 3 bandages and 0 food, who is the winner here?

[squishums]

Attack power gets added twice to DW. DPS from attack power gets added to MH once and then again to OH (with penalty)

Trading ~30% damage for ~10% less damage taken is retarded. Even if it was 30% vs 30% it would still be stupid.

If Joe kills 100 mobs in 5 minutes and spends 3 bandages and 5 food, while George kills 70 mobs in 5 minutes and spends 3 bandages and 0 food, who is the winner here?

100 vs 70 is actually not 30%. 130 vs 100, or 91 vs 70, or 100 vs 77 is, because the lower number is the baseline. Also, you neglect to count the time spent eating. If Joe was truly killing 30% faster than George but needed to eat 3 times (for 23 second each time?) over 5 minutes, Joe and George would be killing at EXACTLY THE SAME SPEED.

23*3=69 seconds eating, which leaves 231 seconds killing

231 seconds * 1.3 = 300.3. Joe gets 300 seconds of grinding done in....300 seconds.

300 seconds * 1 = 300. So does George.


I know this example is not totally fair, but you posted it!



Attack power being applied twice for DW is why the equation I used earlier is still correct for any amount of attack power.

1.5*(1-0.19)=1.22, and 1.625*(1-0.19)=1.32 (depending on talents)

[Stark]

Go level fury 2 hand or dual wield if you have the money to keep upgrading your weapons and play on the PvE server.

Go arms for PvP server if you're not twinked.

People can link all the theoretical math they want. The PvP server is nonstop fighting and as fury you will lose 90% of your fights.

Sure arms may be a little slow until 40 but you'll at least be able to fight some people off and not lose every pvp encounter. Been leveling arms and now that I'm 40 it's fine.

[mean_steve]

Go level fury 2 hand or dual wield if you have the money to keep upgrading your weapons and play on the PvE server.

Go arms for PvP server if you're not twinked.

People can link all the theoretical math they want. The PvP server is nonstop fighting and as fury you will lose 90% of your fights.

Sure arms may be a little slow until 40 but you'll at least be able to fight some people off and not lose every pvp encounter. Been leveling arms and now that I'm 40 it's fine.

agreed!
i also play inarms on pvp (58 right now) ... since 40 its faster to lvl and nice to pvp.
i had 3 duels with a 58 fury warrior .. i won all 3

[Brion]

Go level fury 2 hand or dual wield if you have the money to keep upgrading your weapons and play on the PvE server.

Go arms for PvP server if you're not twinked.

People can link all the theoretical math they want. The PvP server is nonstop fighting and as fury you will lose 90% of your fights.

Sure arms may be a little slow until 40 but you'll at least be able to fight some people off and not lose every pvp encounter. Been leveling arms and now that I'm 40 it's fine.

The only times I'm ever ganked on the PvP server, I have a 0% chance of winning anyway. In fact, virtually every time I've been killed, it was by some level 60. Most people who are leveling don't seem to want to make waves, with the exception of STV, which was a ton of fun even as fury.

[kiddcabbage]

I was wondering this same thing, so I did some calculations.

*I'm going on the assumption that 1H weapons have 78.5% of the damage as 2H weapons on average, by comparing similar weapons at the same item level.

2H white DPS: (Weapon DPS + (AP/14)) * 0.95
DW white DPS: (((Weapon DPS * 0.785) + (AP/14)) * 0.76) + (((Weapon DPS * 0.785) + (AP/14)) * 0.5 * 0.76)


X axis: 2H weapon DPS
Red: 2H DPS @ 100AP
Purple: DW DPS @ 100AP
Blue: 2H DPS @ 200AP
Orange: DW DPS @ 200AP
Green: 2H DPS @ 400AP
Black: DW DPS @ 400AP


Some things of note:
More AP always goes in favor of DW.
With high enough weapons DPS, 2H will always pass DW.
AP increases the required weapon DPS for 2H to pass DW.

With 100AP, a 2H of 24.63 DPS is required to deal more DPS than DW items of similar quality.
With 200AP, a 2H of 49.26 DPS is required to deal more DPS than DW items of similar quality.
With 400AP, a 2H of 98.52 DPS is required to deal more DPS than DW items of similar quality.

So, for every 1AP you have, you must match it with 0.2463 weapon DPS in order for 2H to deal more damage than DWing.

Going off my experience, I have a 26 warrior with 210 AP so I would need a weapon with 51.72 DPS in order for 2Hing to beat out DWing. But that shit ain't going to happen at 26. So at least for white damage, it looks like DWing beats out 2Hing. Not sure when it comes to yellow damage, though, but that's a fuckload more calculation than I can figure right now...

[itwasfree]

/math

So at least for white damage, it looks like DWing beats out 2Hing. Not sure when it comes to yellow damage, though, but that's a fuckload more calculation than I can figure right now...

Unfortunately, yellow dmg can not be ignored. Effectively, yellow damage is a boost to weapon dps in your formula and is a flat increaese for both 2H & DW with the exception of auto resets like Overpower and Mortal Strike, which heavily favor 2H.

And that's before you have to punish DE's yellow damage for the parry/miss chance.

I can't do the math right now to see if its significant enough to overcome the decline in white damage, but I suspect it is.

[kiddcabbage]

Well, clearly yellow damage can't be ignored. Can someone get me the vanilla warrior ability formulas and I can see about incorporating those. Need rage formulas, too...

[mastermoe4]

Well, clearly yellow damage can't be ignored. Can someone get me the vanilla warrior ability formulas and I can see about incorporating those. Need rage formulas, too...

With all that math you did. Does it pretend that both the 2hand warrior and dw warrior have 100% hit chance?