TPS weapons

[vido]

Wowwiki is a horrible source for vanilla it's full of mistakes and misinformation. Weapon skill affects everything on the attack table by 0.04% per point. As far as I can tell these values depend on the difference in weapon and defense skill * 0.04% + 5% base miss/dodge/parry chance. Going from 300 to 305 weapon skill will decrease your chance to miss/dodge/parry/block by 0.20% and if you're attacking a level 63 mob in particular you will have glancing blows on the attack table which are affected as well. 310 is effectively the cap for glancing blows causing them to do nearly 100% damage of a normal hit.

In TBC weapon/defense stat from items was removed and the mechanics were changed so I assume that it was found to be sufficient to give formulas in terms of weapon/defense skill without explicitly stating that these values depend only on the mobs level. This could be the cause for confusion for some people of the way that +weapon/def skill works in vanilla.

[ChargingMoose]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=13984

How good is Darrowspike in terms of threat? I know it's got a weird proc and 1.5, but I never see it get talked about at least for entering raids. I had it on Feenix Emerald Dream and really liked it.

[The Shortest Path]

Assuming they have the same PPM, the Darrowspike proc is way better than the Alcor's proc due to everything in tier 1 and 2 having fire resist or immunity, and better than the stats on Finkle's against non-beasts, but it's still that much less threat gen due to the slower speed.

It's definitely not a bad weapon until you can get either of the 1.3 daggers, though.

[Undertanker]

PPM is not a valid term here. Items have a base chance to proc and do not have internal cooldowns like future expansions.

These two items proc rates are very low and do not factor into play at all which is better. Only the speed. Honzo procs much more often so honzo vs that dagger honzo wins. Pro why this dagger isnt talked about.

Julies you can get for 10g is 1.3speed but is bugged atm. The proc which is ALWAYS up, so good tps off the heal, does not stack with priest renew.

Most mobs in bwl and MC can be damaged by fire. Some have partial resist, others are full resist (very few), but those are the bosses the +10fr comes in handy.

If you were using a 1.5, you would want Scarlet Kris for the 10 stam, 10 agil.

[Stalk]

Wowwiki is a horrible source for vanilla it's full of mistakes and misinformation. Weapon skill affects everything on the attack table by 0.04% per point. As far as I can tell these values depend on the difference in weapon and defense skill * 0.04% + 5% base miss/dodge/parry chance. Going from 300 to 305 weapon skill will decrease your chance to miss/dodge/parry/block by 0.20% and if you're attacking a level 63 mob in particular you will have glancing blows on the attack table which are affected as well. 310 is effectively the cap for glancing blows causing them to do nearly 100% damage of a normal hit.

In TBC weapon/defense stat from items was removed and the mechanics were changed so I assume that it was found to be sufficient to give formulas in terms of weapon/defense skill without explicitly stating that these values depend only on the mobs level. This could be the cause for confusion for some people of the way that +weapon/def skill works in vanilla.

All of this information that you just posted is mentioned on Wowwiki pages and it was just linked in the previous posts on this thread. If you would just read it, you would've seen that this copypasta of theorycraft vomit is repeating what everyone else is saying. No one is talking about glancing blows here.

PPM is not a valid term here. Items have a base chance to proc and do not have internal cooldowns like future expansions.

PPM was a term that originated with vanilla theorycrafting. It does not mean that the item ability has an internal cooldown or a limit to the number of spell occurences per minute.

[St0rfan]

Wowwiki is a horrible source for vanilla it's full of mistakes and misinformation. Weapon skill affects everything on the attack table by 0.04% per point. As far as I can tell these values depend on the difference in weapon and defense skill * 0.04% + 5% base miss/dodge/parry chance. Going from 300 to 305 weapon skill will decrease your chance to miss/dodge/parry/block by 0.20% and if you're attacking a level 63 mob in particular you will have glancing blows on the attack table which are affected as well. 310 is effectively the cap for glancing blows causing them to do nearly 100% damage of a normal hit.

In TBC weapon/defense stat from items was removed and the mechanics were changed so I assume that it was found to be sufficient to give formulas in terms of weapon/defense skill without explicitly stating that these values depend only on the mobs level. This could be the cause for confusion for some people of the way that +weapon/def skill works in vanilla.

All of this information that you just posted is mentioned on Wowwiki pages and it was just linked in the previous posts on this thread. If you would just read it, you would've seen that this copypasta of theorycraft vomit is repeating what everyone else is saying. No one is talking about glancing blows here.

PPM is not a valid term here. Items have a base chance to proc and do not have internal cooldowns like future expansions.

PPM was a term that originated with vanilla theorycrafting. It does not mean that the item ability has an internal cooldown or a limit to the number of spell occurences per minute.

Well said. PPM doesnt in any way imply an internal CD. All it implies is that proc-chance is adjusted accordingly to weapon speed. This means that a slow weapon will be highly favoured for the likes of crusader because the PPM doesnt take into account instant abilities such as BT/MS/WW etc. My latest tests have shown me that Crusader on Alcor's Sunrazor yields me a PPM of 0.4 while Crusader on my Quel'serrar Yield a PPM of about 0.9-1. From this data I have come to the conculsion that for 1.3 speed weapons you are better off using either 5wep dmg, Life Stealing (or even Fiery) than using Crusader, while the oposite holds true for Quel'Serrar.

TL;DR. Because of the PPM mechanics of Crusader the break-point seem to be around 1.5-1.8 speed. This tests where done with a sample of 1000 hits without Windfury.

EDIT: Regarding life steaing, in 1000 hits I got a proc-chance of 35%. This translates into an average of 35dmg to the mob with each proc, meaning 35 threat, and 35 heaing done to myself yielding 35*0.5 = 17.5 threat (Total of 57.5 threat per proc).

((57.5*0.35)/1.3) = 15,48076923076923 TPS (ThreatPerSecond).

In contrast to Crusader:

((0.4*15)/60) = 0.1 = 10% uptime
((200ap*0.1)/14) = 1,428571428571429 DPS (TPS)

TL;DR #2:

- Alcors (or any 1.3 weapon) with crusader Gains 1,428571428571429 DPS (And thus also the same TPS)
- Alcors (or any 1.3 weapon) with Life steaing Gains 15,48076923076923 DPS (And thus also the same TPS)

It should be noted that I have not tested Life stealing on Quel'Serrar so I have no data of life steaing procrate on anything other than 1.3 speed weapons.


EDIT #2: I forgot to factor in the healing from Crusader for threat.

If anyone got any corrections please tell me. I love to learn new stuff.

[Undertanker]

Im using crusader on Quel, +5 damage on alcors. I used lifestealing on alcors at first, but the cold streaks of not getting a proc were killing it. The 7.8ish % of dps +5 gives you is 100% uptime, though it doesnt affect revenge which a proc enchant can pop off of.

I used to have crusader on alcors and removed that as well for +5.

When 15 agil comes out, this will not be a conversation. Though I still recommend crusader -Quel for 5 mans.

Use 8/8 T1 always in 5 mans for the sunder armor threat, the quel proc will help with the DEF loss by wearing T1. The harder hits on quel will give you more snap rage, and because you cant spam HS in 5 mans, obly swap to it mid fight to spam some cleaves.

It helps to keep your two weapons on action bar and swap might fight as you see fit, i do the same with shields.

[vido]

All of this information that you just posted is mentioned on Wowwiki pages and it was just linked in the previous posts on this thread. If you would just read it, you would've seen that this copypasta of theorycraft vomit is repeating what everyone else is saying. No one is talking about glancing blows here.

If you payed some attention to what I wrote you would realize that I'm not copying anything from any source man. I tried to explain how weapon skill actually works since it seems that most people who posted don't have a shred of a clue. The formulas against a mob and player are exactly the same in vanilla which leads to a hit cap of 8.6% against raid bosses with 300 skill, and 8.4% with 305.

[Stalk]

If you payed some attention to what I wrote you would realize that I'm not copying anything from any source man. I tried to explain how weapon skill actually works since it seems that most people who posted don't have a shred of a clue. The formulas against a mob and player are exactly the same in vanilla which leads to a hit cap of 8.6% against raid bosses with 300 skill, and 8.4% with 305.

Yes, the 'formulas' were the same in vanilla as in TBC. You may read it again here if the kevlar shell that surrounds your skull will permit your brain to accept it:

"When a player or other mob attacks a mob, the change in miss chance is 0.2% per rating difference if that rating difference is 11 or more. If the rating difference is 10 or less then the change in miss chance is 0.1% per point. If the attacker and defender have the same ratings then of course the total miss chance will be 5%."

[vido]

From my point of view, you're the one having a hard time changing your opinion on this matter. What you're saying is completely flawed, a bit of testing in game would prove this.

Item stats were completely overhauled in TBC and it was also apparent that weapon/defense skill mechanics needed a change too. After all in vanilla we have a level 44 BoE epic being a BiS end-game item.