Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Tanked my first Deadmines yesterday, and while I held threat just fine, I found I was ragestarved 90% of the time, just barely getting by.

It seemed like a single Sunder was enough threat for non-elites, and elites only took two sunders to hold aggro before they died, so threat wasn't an issue, but I was always just sitting there waiting for rage, and I couldn't use Shield Block because I had to save all my rage for sunders, especially on 2-3 mob pulls.

Is this just normal for low level tanking? I wasn't exactly taking much damage from trash; the only things that hit me hard were multi-elite pulls and Smite/Vancleef.

Also, is Demo shout still bugged? I read a guide around here that said it's currently bugged and generates almost no threat.

And on the subect of shouts and threat, can one just keep spamming a shout to generate AoE threat? Like with Battle Shout generating threat, it was said that the threat is generated from buffing party members/pets, so does it only genrate threat when they gain the buff? Or does refreshing the buff on people who already have it, also generate threat?

gotmilk0112 wrote:It seemed like a single Sunder was enough threat for non-elites, and elites only took two sunders to hold aggro before they died, so threat wasn't an issue, but I was always just sitting there waiting for rage, and I couldn't use Shield Block because I had to save all my rage for sunders, especially on 2-3 mob pulls.

Is this just normal for low level tanking? I wasn't exactly taking much damage from trash; the only things that hit me hard were multi-elite pulls and Smite/Vancleef.

Yes, it is normal for you to have low rage at low levels, so you need to use your rage wisely.

gotmilk0112 wrote:Also, is Demo shout still bugged? I read a guide around here that said it's currently bugged and generates almost no threat.

No, it does generate threat. However, it only generates roughly 20% of a sunder's threat to each target, so it's only worth it in a few select situations (as in a swarm of non-elites).

What you're experiencing is pretty standard for low level tanking. It's a game of catch-up too due to people being much more aggressive with DPS, assuming you have tools to get aggro on mobs without any issues.

While what you're saying about Demo shout may be true, in that it might not be providing as much rage as intended, it still generates a fair amount of threat. This is the kind of thing to apply at the beginning of the fight as mobs are approaching you or the group, or any time an add is pulled - great AoE way to grab threat in all stances. But the amount is a pittance, so it's mostly good to gather them and apply the debuff. Once it's on there, I don't think it is a worthwhile source of rage expenditure in terms of threat. According to Kenco's research, Demo does generate threat even after it's been applied, but it is a small amount (numbers below).

Sunder is alright, but it isn't the most efficient tool to gain threat supremacy. Relying mostly on it for threat will leave you starved as you say here. Revenge is your best Threat per Rage spent, but it requires it to be procced. This can be gotten around by utilizing Shield Block whenever you can, because you then will be mitigating damage + giving you a cheap, but more efficient tool for threat. Of course you will use Sunder too, but keeping an eye on the Revenge button as your prime Threat mover - and Shield Block is the key into that wonderful world. See, while Sunder may be 15, Revenge + SB is also 15, and it does more Threat + you get mitigation.

Here are some numbers from Kenco's research on threat from 2006:

Revenge*: 315 (313.9 - 318.3)
Sunder: 261 (260.95 - 261.15)
Shield Slam*: ?? 250 (estimated)
Shield Bash*: 180 (175.4 - 180.3)
Heroic Strike*: 145 (143.9 - 148.8)
Thunder Clap*: 130 (126.9 - 134.8)
Demo Shout: 43 (42.8 - 43.8)
Revenge Stun: 25 (23.4 - 29.1)
Shield Block: 0 (0 - 0. Can be higher)

So Revenge gives more threat than Sunder, eh? Interesting. For the longest time I thought Sunder was the highest threat ability. (One vanilla video even goes out of its way to mention "People figured out that spamming Sunder was the highest threat per second" or something like that) So...eh, highest threat per second maybe, but not the highest single threat ability?

Yeah, late into the instance I figured out the whole "SB+R costs the same rage as Sunder" thing.

Are there any threat meters in vanilla, or are they the same as the TBC ones, eg, they require everyone in the group to be running the same addon in order to function properly?

gotmilk0112 wrote:So Revenge gives more threat than Sunder, eh? Interesting. For the longest time I thought Sunder was the highest threat ability. (One vanilla video even goes out of its way to mention "People figured out that spamming Sunder was the highest threat per second" or something like that) So...eh, highest threat per second maybe, but not the highest single threat ability?

Yeah, late into the instance I figured out the whole "SB+R costs the same rage as Sunder" thing.

Are there any threat meters in vanilla, or are they the same as the TBC ones, eg, they require everyone in the group to be running the same addon in order to function properly?

Just think how much better Revenge is when it procs without having to cast SB ^

And I think that vanilla threat mods require you to be in a raid. KTM is the one I hear people are using here.

Xom wrote:And I think that vanilla threat mods require you to be in a raid. KTM is the one I hear people are using here.

Not sure how being in a raid would allow the addon to detect everyone else's threat...not really seeing the logic there. But then again, this is Vanilla; logic need not apply.

For TBC private servers, Omen/KTM only worked if other people in the group/raid were also using Omen/KTM. If you didn't have it active, you were not visible to anyone else's threat meter.

Threat meter, you need to have it for other.people to see you, yes.

Demo shout is fixed now. What was broken was rather all adds getting the set threat number, demo threat was divided by the amount of mobs, similar to healing threat. Was fixed 3 weeks ago.

As for the threat info shown above, it is not adding in the 1 for 1 damage to threat ratio, making shield slam so great. Shield bash does muchore threat on a successful interrupt, but can still be used if you get disarmed.


Now for your main issue, low lvl instance tanking rage starvation.

While at your level, rage cost of sunder and sb revenge is the same, it isnt best for snap aggro.

Have a weapon that isnt too fast or too slow so you get hard enough hits for good rage gain, 1.8 tp 2.0 speed is best.

Sunder needs to be your first move, you dont have time to wait on being swung at and them a global after. After two sunders start 'rage pooling' This means if you already have the aggro and the mob is almost dead, start conserving for your next pull.

Educate healers to not shield you, and do not have a heal over time on you until you have aggro. Priest shield should only be used to save your ass, teach them this.

Mark your kill target when there is more than one. Only start 1 sunder on kill target, swap to other target and sunder, damage will have aggro, then taunt it, 1 more sundet and move back to gwtting aggro on others, use taunt as a buffer for free aggro on skull/kill target.

One last tip, blood rage. Gaining rage or other resources through abilities or items causes threat. Pull will gun/bow THEN bloodrage while you line of sight. This adds extra threat to all mobs on the pull from very far away.

Revenge is your best TPS move, but should be your opener. Use it after established threat, and if it procs without needing to use SB you can rage pool that much mote for the next mobs.