Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

I believe the creator of this spreadsheet is still on these forums as he keeps this list active. Can we have him post a new thread for a sticky? I believe most wars on these forums already have this bookmarked but it's extremely useful for those who haven't seen it yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ykTa_OWeWsB3L3dJHxMaiC3p4IMSr0W0UMl3woQaSqI/edit#gid=949587540

Yeah this is Grave's spreadsheet from Final Exit if I am not mistaken.

Very good resource for tanks, I only beef over Overlords over Rebout cloak.

On shield we already know 7 stam > 2 block.

Overlord's has 5 less stam, 1 block, 100 more armor.

The math is close, I will give you that, but I like the additional stam since I use more hit gear whick lacks stam.

What would you value a stam:block ratio at?

Undertanker wrote:Yeah this is Grave's spreadsheet from Final Exit if I am not mistaken.

Very good resource for tanks, I only beef over Overlords over Rebout cloak.

On shield we already know 7 stam > 2 block.

Overlord's has 5 less stam, 1 block, 100 more armor.

The math is close, I will give you that, but I like the additional stam since I use more hit gear whick lacks stam.

When only considering avoidance 1 block will be more effective HP than 5 stamina in almost every situation right?

Block chance is pretty much useless for tanking bosses for two reasons:

1. Shield Block: With the proper spec, you can push crushing blows off of the table with shield block. Using shield block on CD won't make you immune to them in all cases since some bosses may have fast attack speeds, but even in those cases shield block will stop the vast majority of them.
2. Pathetic Damage Reduction: When your shield block is down and on CD, +block chance won't help with crushing blows (and crits if you aren't def capped) as it will only reduce the boss's melee by 2-5% on a block (can sometimes be like 10% with high block value but even that is pathetic).

And for tanking a few adds, it's only mediocre at best since you get more overall damage reduction with avoidance.

The threat set is a complete abomination. It looks like it was randomly thrown together. Apparently it's better to replace your best possibly itemized tank slots with mail gear and stuff like lionheart rather than starting with your sub-par slots like t2 shoulder > drake talon, t2 boots > chrom boots, overlord's embrace> zulian tigerhide, crimson band> don julio.

Problazer wrote:

Undertanker wrote:Yeah this is Grave's spreadsheet from Final Exit if I am not mistaken.

Very good resource for tanks, I only beef over Overlords over Rebout cloak.

On shield we already know 7 stam > 2 block.

Overlord's has 5 less stam, 1 block, 100 more armor.

The math is close, I will give you that, but I like the additional stam since I use more hit gear whick lacks stam.

When only considering avoidance 1 block will be more effective HP than 5 stamina in almost every situation right?

Block is mitigation, not avoidance.

As well, things that kill you as a tank excluding patchwork:o
Magic damage lined up with a succession of physical attacks. Cant block magic damage.

Loss of character control preventing dodge/block/parry. ie knockdowns trembles, tornado, and so on, block is useless here.

For a stat sheet "value ratio" it changes based on content and fight length. Based off of a 2.4 sec swing (no thunderclap or Thunderfury) in 1 min there are 25 boss auto attacks.

Lets say you are rage starved so dont use shield block with 24 percent block i blocked 6 hits.

At 25% I block 6.25 hits. I would have to fight for 4 min to have 1% more block help me. Block value average of 165. Or 41.25 damage a min. = mitigation of 0.68 damage a second. If you never used shield block which makes 1 block 100 percent useless.

So still going off best value of 0.68 mitigation a second the swing being 2.4, you mitigate 1.65 damage a swing at very best. Factor in crushing / 1 *.5 we are at 0.98, so lets say 1 damage a second.

In 2 swings yo have even mitigated 5 damage yet (4.8 damage.)

So it takes about 3 block to be better than 5 ,stam on paper in a world of never using shield block and no magic damage.

Factoring all the magic damage, loss of character control and using shield block, it is more in line to a 1 to 1 ration.

1 block =1 stam.

100 armor does not justify the loss of the other 4 stam.

Tl;Dr Redoubt > Overlords.

I'd take 100 armor over 4 stam on any physical damage based fight. The more hp you have the better armor becomes compared to stamina, at around 10k hp 100 armor would be comparable to 3-4 stam in terms of effective health alone, disregarding overall damage intake.

So Overlords is better on Broodlord. Or very close to equal. AQ bosses this arguement is nill.

MC you should have lower stam for hit gear, which makes redoubt stam more valuable.


Block percent and value shines more in 5 mans as stacking block value turns a vlock into an avoidance rather than mitigation when blocking all damage.

In regards to using block value for threat, it is effective but you get more TPS increase reaching hit cap.


I agree i am not a fan of some of the items and at first I hated on Lionoheart helm, but when you put zg enchant on it, it is a stout increase in threat.

Please keep in mind the threat sets are for MC / Onxyia / Zg / 5 mans not BWL.

If you look at my character link, in my signature, i have 6 hit, 5,700 unbuffed and 425 def with onxyia trinket. When I get Band of Accura, I will take off Dark Ring and have 8 hit 5,600 hp and 420 def. This is why anticipation talents are taken.

Slap on some world buffs, use your stam consumables and rock out. For Val in BWL I take off Lionheart for T2 for EHP.

Seems like NR items are wrong, there is 1.11.1 items in the list that you can't use once AQ hits.

I don't think you can hit NR cap with any class other then a plate user, and even then you need the best stated green misc items with engi head, unless you want to get that NR shield and gimp your damage completely.