Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Hey, so I am playing through with my friend who is a shaman. He's not exactly sure what his build is going to be but it will focus on DPS. I am not sure if I should have a build that is more focused on DPS arms/fury or a build that combines fury/protection. I originally wanted to have a dual wield DPS build but my friend pulls aggro a lot and so I've been thinking that I may need to spec more into protection. I have some builds that I would like to have critqued and I am curious what your guys' thoughts are.

DPS:
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 505010251r
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 505010251r

Damage and protection:
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 5005253e3h

shoebombs wrote:Hey, so I am playing through with my friend who is a shaman. He's not exactly sure what his build is going to be but it will focus on DPS. I am not sure if I should have a build that is more focused on DPS arms/fury or a build that combines fury/protection. I originally wanted to have a dual wield DPS build but my friend pulls aggro a lot and so I've been thinking that I may need to spec more into protection. I have some builds that I would like to have critqued and I am curious what your guys' thoughts are.

DPS:
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 505010251r
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 505010251r

Damage and protection:
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 5005253e3h

I guess you're leveling?
Anyway your dmg/prot spec doesn't make sense and won't even help you much whit aggro, actually i think it's gonna be harder to tank whit it because your dmg output would be ridiculously low. Besides that, you're skipping piercing howl and deathwish that are pretty much the best talents in fury tree.
If you want to tank stick arms/fury and equip a shield, shiledblock/revenge it's the best and pretty much the only way you can keep aggro at low level. Many tanks pick improved sunder armor when going full prot (main tanks) but is a real shitty talent imo, as it don't really helps you tanking while leveling (you gonna be rage starved anyway), while at level 60 defiance + cruely + 1h specialization combined are more than enough for holding aggro unless you're a braindead chimp. It becomes even more useless in raid because of the huge rage gains coming from dmg received.
Now, talking about your dps specs: improved overpower is really a must for dpsing, unless you're a bored, rich endgame warrior playing a weird gear/consumables setup just for the lols. Anger management can be handy but is never needed, there are just better things to pick, same for improved charge. Your points in fury tree are well used (i use the same spec for endgame dpsing), but for leveling/pvp both piercing howl and improved intercept are really handy talents to have.
I would reccomend everyone to start whit: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 05020302zq
and work the way up to : http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 50104c501v (if you have good gear blood craze can be an alternative to improved battle shout)
if you're dual wielding finish whit: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 452501c51r (improved execute sucks for raiding but it's better than berserker rage for leveling/fast fights)
otherwise: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 025012251r

Honestly i would go whit this for leveling (hightest dmg output especially whit 3.8+ speed weapon): http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 04c551005s
but slam spec is hard, boring, requires good timing and latency so it's not really for everyone...

Harasser wrote:

shoebombs wrote:Hey, so I am playing through with my friend who is a shaman. He's not exactly sure what his build is going to be but it will focus on DPS. I am not sure if I should have a build that is more focused on DPS arms/fury or a build that combines fury/protection. I originally wanted to have a dual wield DPS build but my friend pulls aggro a lot and so I've been thinking that I may need to spec more into protection. I have some builds that I would like to have critqued and I am curious what your guys' thoughts are.

DPS:
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 505010251r
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 505010251r

Damage and protection:
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?tal ... 5005253e3h

I guess you're leveling?
Anyway your dmg/prot spec doesn't make sense and won't even help you much whit aggro, actually i think it's gonna be harder to tank whit it because your dmg output would be ridiculously low. Besides that, you're skipping piercing howl and deathwish that are pretty much the best talents in fury tree.
If you want to tank stick arms/fury and equip a shield, shiledblock/revenge it's the best and pretty much the only way you can keep aggro at low level. Many tanks pick improved sunder armor when going full prot (main tanks) but is a real shitty talent imo, as it don't really helps you tanking while leveling (you gonna be rage starved anyway), while at level 60 defiance + cruely + 1h specialization combined are more than enough for holding aggro unless you're a braindead chimp. It becomes even more useless in raid because of the huge rage gains coming from dmg received.
Now, talking about your dps specs: improved overpower is really a must for dpsing, unless you're a bored, rich endgame warrior playing a weird gear/consumables setup just for the lols. Anger management can be handy but is never needed, there are just better things to pick, same for improved charge. Your points in fury tree are well used (i use the same spec for endgame dpsing), but for leveling/pvp both piercing howl and improved intercept are really handy talents to have.
I would reccomend everyone to start whit: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 05020302zq
and work the way up to : http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 50104c501v (if you have good gear blood craze can be an alternative to improved battle shout)
if you're dual wielding finish whit: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 452501c51r (improved execute sucks for raiding but it's better than berserker rage for leveling/fast fights)
otherwise: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 025012251r

Honestly i would go whit this for leveling (hightest dmg output especially whit 3.8+ speed weapon): http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 04c551005s
but slam spec is hard, boring, requires good timing and latency so it's not really for everyone...

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. Haven't played a warrior since WoW first came out. Is Bloodthirst all that great? Is that instant hit worth the massive rage depletion? I suppose it is used in a PvP situation to get a final few hits in to kill the enemy?

It all depends on what you want to do with your warrior. For leveling, Shaman will almost always pull aggro because he'll do more damage(no parry/dodge etc on spells). I'd say it doesn't matter while leveling, he can heal himself and when he's low on mana you can pull while he drinks. I'd go with build you want to play on 60 so you can get more familiar with it, all specs works fine. If you plan to PVP go Arms, if PVE dps go Fury, if you want to tank go Prot.

Arms - something like that, choose your weapon

Fury - Tactical mastery is redundant I'd say, you'll stay in Berserkers all the time, 2 points added for Mocking blow if tank dies

Prot - For dungeons/leveling, for raids it'll be different but since you're leveling I won't post that.

You should be able to keep aggro with heroic strike and a good 2-hander unless he spams earthshock right off the bat. Get stance dance so you can switch to taunt/revenge/intercept if you absolutely need to keep aggro.

Basically, go arms.

Speaking from a pure fury dps standpoint the people above have no clue what they are talking about. Here is the optimal spec for pure fury dps. It would be noted though that deep wounds might not be viable (yet) due to the 8 debuff slot limit:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LbhxbhbZVV0VgxoVo

- 2/2 in Overpower because you WILL stance-dance for this ability is a guaranteed critical strike and will give flurry-uptime. I suggest getting an addon called "overpower alert" because of this.

- 5/5 in tac mastery because of the above fact, you will be stance-dancing for Overpower.

- 2/3 in imp heroic strike as the other talents are more important. Heroic strike acts as your rage-dump ability
and you will only really be able to spam this in BWL-bis gear (or having Ironfoe). In AQ/Naxx gear you will be able to spec 3/3 heroic and never mind overpower because at that point your crit chance in raids will be high enough to sustain your flurry anyways.

- 2/2 in imp execute because it does make up a huge chunk of your DPS. Execute phase is very long on several important bosses like ragnaros, Vaelstrasz, Chromaggus, Nefarian and even without these fights its still superior to 2/2 imp zerk rage.

Now. Since we're currently in pre 1.4 -patch with only 8 debuff slots your raid-leader would most likely not want deep wounds on boss, in this case you'll want to spec like this:
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LG0xbZVVhVgxoio

The only point in the above talents I would consider optional would be the last 4/5 point of BS which you could put in Piercing howl for good trash utility.

Source: Played as fury thru MC/BWL, full TBC content and Full wotlk content and having tested alot of specs, weapon combinations, play-styles and done quite a bit of theory-crafting.

What Storfan said for PvE.

I assume you are focusing on PvE? Are you and your friend planning to run instances together, join a guild and raid together, PvP?

With an enhancement shaman using earth shock you probably won't be able to keep threat off him. If you are tanking then just let him tank the target he's hitting and keep the rest of the mobs off him. Nothing in 5 mans hit hard enough that a shaman can't tank it for a little bit. If there is anything that hits really hard, get him to DPS it last or for a single pull, let you land a few sunder's before he starts DPS.

Wait a few sunders.... Have you ever been in a 5 man or have a lvl partner as warrior?.

Taunt is a lil different back on Vanilla, it will catch highest aggro, so if you just do a single Shoot for small damage, your shammy friend is burst dps crasy, just taunt after he unloads and you have same threat, 1 single weapon hit ob heroic strike and you have far more aggro.

Best thing to do to stop thier snap aggro is charge, hamstring. Hamstring aggro is surprisingly good and wont consume a white hit. The mob will turn back to shammy with about 25% hp. 1 more white hit then execute.

Utilize mocking blow, and you should have min 2 points in tatical mastery, more is better. So you can swap to def stance, taunt and swap back to arms. Do not sunder when questing.

End game you do not need cruelty as well, as much as people believe damage = more aggro... You can hold aggro spamming sunder and revenge, the first which has no damage, the second is very weak. Put those points instead into damage mitigation.

Tanks are responsible for not just keeping aggro, but minimizing the damage we are taking during that time. Demo shouts, stance dance to thunderclap, disarm. And kite where applicable.(example SM Herod - can doa figure 8 on small stairs, jumping off before he gets to you over and over).

Storfan wrote:Speaking from a pure fury dps standpoint the people above have no clue what they are talking about. Here is the optimal spec for pure fury dps. It would be noted though that deep wounds might not be viable (yet) due to the 8 debuff slot limit:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LbhxbhbZVV0VgxoVo

- 2/2 in Overpower because you WILL stance-dance for this ability is a guaranteed critical strike and will give flurry-uptime. I suggest getting an addon called "overpower alert" because of this.

- 5/5 in tac mastery because of the above fact, you will be stance-dancing for Overpower.

- 2/3 in imp heroic strike as the other talents are more important. Heroic strike acts as your rage-dump ability
and you will only really be able to spam this in BWL-bis gear (or having Ironfoe). In AQ/Naxx gear you will be able to spec 3/3 heroic and never mind overpower because at that point your crit chance in raids will be high enough to sustain your flurry anyways.

- 2/2 in imp execute because it does make up a huge chunk of your DPS. Execute phase is very long on several important bosses like ragnaros, Vaelstrasz, Chromaggus, Nefarian and even without these fights its still superior to 2/2 imp zerk rage.

Now. Since we're currently in pre 1.4 -patch with only 8 debuff slots your raid-leader would most likely not want deep wounds on boss, in this case you'll want to spec like this:
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LG0xbZVVhVgxoio

The only point in the above talents I would consider optional would be the last 4/5 point of BS which you could put in Piercing howl for good trash utility.

Source: Played as fury thru MC/BWL, full TBC content and Full wotlk content and having tested alot of specs, weapon combinations, play-styles and done quite a bit of theory-crafting.

So I suppose that I'd want to do the arms tree and then work my way down the fury? And I would pretty much only use battle stance for charge and overpower, otherwise I'm in berserk correct?

Armilus wrote:What Storfan said for PvE.

I assume you are focusing on PvE? Are you and your friend planning to run instances together, join a guild and raid together, PvP?

With an enhancement shaman using earth shock you probably won't be able to keep threat off him. If you are tanking then just let him tank the target he's hitting and keep the rest of the mobs off him. Nothing in 5 mans hit hard enough that a shaman can't tank it for a little bit. If there is anything that hits really hard, get him to DPS it last or for a single pull, let you land a few sunder's before he starts DPS.

Yeah, I'm more focused on PvE but I wouldn't mind doing a little PvP. We definitely want to do instances. Pretty much all of the instances that we can do.

Storfan wrote: 2/2 in imp execute because it does make up a huge chunk of your DPS. Execute phase is very long on several important bosses like ragnaros, Vaelstrasz, Chromaggus, Nefarian and even without these fights its still superior to 2/2 imp zerk rage.

This has been proven to be wrong, imp execute is superior only for few fights, and is really bad compared to imp zerk rage on any fight around 3 mins or more. Test it out.