Human vs the Rest

[Betta]

roll a 60 horde rogue, and you'll see how bad paladins / reck pallies / perception / and stoneform (removes blind) is.

For the sake of conversation.. I played an Undead Rogue for countless years. People generally didn't cry as much about alliance racials until "Every Man For Himself" was implemented. Aren't most of those heralded as "top PvP Rogues" (whether it be retail vanilla or private servers) Undead? Hmmm...

Sure reck pallies can be annoying.. So are paladins in general. Such is life in vanilla . Being a caster and getting spam purged by Shaman is annoying as well.

Stoneform lol, because there's such an abundance of dwarves running around. Good thing we have double blind, eh? Is there even a talented dwarf PvPer on this server? If there is, I haven't seen them.

50 points of stealth detection means any human can see you from 30+ yds away

Not quite.. Have you even played a human at 60?

even if you do try to vanish, you'll be spotted and AoE'd out of stealth.

The more I read, the more clueless you sound..

this also means you cannot cripple / gouge / net / run away and restealth against a human, unless they're bad.

*you're

no, obviously you're not required to go swords as human, but sword specialization is just too good to pass up.

This is about the only part of your post that I 100% agree with.

[pasur]

roll a 60 horde rogue, and you'll see how bad paladins / reck pallies / perception / and stoneform (removes blind) is.

For the sake of conversation.. I played an Undead Rogue for countless years. People generally didn't cry as much about alliance racials until "Every Man For Himself" was implemented. Aren't most of those heralded as "top PvP Rogues" (whether it be retail vanilla or private servers) Undead? Hmmm...

Sure reck pallies can be annoying.. So are paladins in general. Such is life in vanilla . Being a caster and getting spam purged by Shaman is annoying as well.

Stoneform lol, because there's such an abundance of dwarves running around. Good thing we have double blind, eh? Is there even a talented dwarf PvPer on this server? If there is, I haven't seen them.

50 points of stealth detection means any human can see you from 30+ yds away

Not quite.. Have you even played a human at 60?

even if you do try to vanish, you'll be spotted and AoE'd out of stealth.

The more I read, the more clueless you sound..

this also means you cannot cripple / gouge / net / run away and restealth against a human, unless they're bad.

*you're

no, obviously you're not required to go swords as human, but sword specialization is just too good to pass up.

This is about the only part of your post that I 100% agree with.

I too have played rogue since Vanilla, Peenix, and Nostalrius, this doesn't make you special.

You almost made me spit out my coffee when you mentioned "heralded" Undead players from retail, AKA PvP videos. You mean like in 2004? when everyone was a backpedaling, keyboard-turning mongo and Paladins were specced pure Retri? You're the one who sounds clueless, stop basing your argument off of grim videos.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the reason why most people (myself included) rolled Undead in Vanilla was simply because they looked badass. once you have a Horde and Alliance rogue at 60 you'll see the ridiculous advantage Alliance Rogues have.

Leave your nostalgic bias / delusion at the door, this forum is supposed to help new Rogues, not make it hard for them. You don't tell Warlocks to roll Alliance, do you?




p.s. to any new players who want to be Undead and be on Alliance --> noggenfogger elixir <--

[moodirun123]

I guess if you got right down to it a human warrior would (bis) outdps a nelf gnome or dwarf warrior (bis) since humans natural cap at 305 sword skill and with bis lvl 44 dps gloves the Edgemasters theyd be at like 310 which does make a diff ...

[XJ9]

Who the hell even uses Seal Fate in Classic to begin with? I'd be more accurate to say that it's "required" you never slot this talent. There's no logical reason to go past Cold Blood in Classic. 21 should be as far as you go in this tree here. Do you also slot Dark Pact on your Warlock?

Uh what? Coming from a dagger rogue 31/8/12 is just fine in pvp, and it actually is much better in raids than say my current spec 22/8/21. Seal fate is also good for dagger rogues if you dont have 110 energy which is a MUST with daggers in pvp imo. nothing like ambush, gouge cold blood 5 point evicerate.
Plus when AQ comes out, there will be new ranks of backstab and evicerate making 31/8/12 even more viable. So yeah.....

He was talking in PvE I think .
In PvP, 31/8/12 with 120 Energy is absolutely wonderful. But in PvE, of course it's better than 21/8/22 (complete garbage), but otherwise, 15/31/5 rules in a raid environment.

I could swear with proper gear itemization around AQ40 gear level Seal Fate Daggers actually begins to outperform Combat Daggers damage-wise, though only when it has the crit chance to make SF worthwhile.

[Youfie]

I've been told that before, and it might actually be the case.

It just seems quite bold to me to assume +10% proc on IP and an Eviscerate every once in a while alone can outperform +5 Daggers, +5% crit., 4 points in Dual Weild, Adrenaline Rush and Blade Flurry.

I haven't done any maths in this, it might actually be possible, I'm just doubtful .

[Fagatron]

That pvp Argument Tho When 90% of Horde is orc with 200% stun resist... Pls get gud factions Are okish balanced.

[Betta]

You almost made me spit out my coffee when you mentioned "heralded" Undead players from retail, AKA PvP videos. You mean like in 2004? when everyone was a backpedaling, keyboard-turning mongo and Paladins were specced pure Retri? You're the one who sounds clueless, stop basing your argument off of grim videos.

So you're illiterate and make false assumptions as well? When did I mention PvP videos or grim? Please.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the reason why most people (myself included) rolled Undead in Vanilla was simply because they looked badass. once you have a Horde and Alliance rogue at 60 you'll see the ridiculous advantage Alliance Rogues have.

I agree that looks were a big motivator for rolling UD in 2004, but WOTF was largely considered "OP" for long after.. I've had multiple 60 Rogues of both factions, thank you. Orc, Undead, Human, and Gnome. You sound like you're crying as a result of being a Horde rogue losing RvR to Human ones.. Wahhhhh, they have perception and get opener... Boo fucking hoo. If you think Orc Rogues (or any class or that matter) don't have a solid advantage vs alliance rogues (especially hemo stunlock, you're definitely the "biased" one.