Rogue Guide by Oto

[Solmyr]

<snip>

*sigh*

We've been over this, Knife-o . Rapidity only starts catching up on voracity when you accumulate a lot of gear, which is around AQ, but by then you have ZG enchants anyway.

Rapidity is the poor man's voracity. I would not begrudge anyone, who uses it over voracity, given current prices of the latter. But claiming people, who already have voracity, should reenchant, is ludicrous even discounting the enormous waste of money and effort .

As a whole, your hypothesis is lacking in the area of real simulation. Even if you did perform a full-fight simulation and a probabilistic analysis in order to aggregate the amount of hypothetical fight [intervals] that would result in an extra hit due to rapidity, this analysis will not account for specific boss mechanics and player deficiencies that reduce uptime on the boss and break down the theoretical intervals.

[TaurenRogue]

Some corrections:
This and my vanilla experience say that the base dodge is 5.6% and base miss 24.6% for dual wield... tested on anachronos with 305 skill and 10 hit total (so the dodge is 0.2% off and miss is 0.4% off but its not the biggest sample).

On a sidenote
300 skill on nostalrius gives you 65% damage from glancing blows, 305=85%, 310=95% and 315=~100% so glancing blows are also a bit different than most private servers and the first 5 points are more valuable than the rest...

PST for more info on how tests were done if interested...

[Youfie]

Some corrections:
This and my vanilla experience say that the base dodge is 5.6% and base miss 24.6% for dual wield... tested on anachronos with 305 skill and 10 hit total (so the dodge is 0.2% off and miss is 0.4% off but its not the biggest sample).

On a sidenote
300 skill on nostalrius gives you 65% damage from glancing blows, 305=85%, 310=95% and 315=~100% so glancing blows are also a bit different than most private servers and the first 5 points are more valuable than the rest...

PST for more info on how tests were done if interested...

Well thank you for those tests, it confirms everything seems to be working as intended .

[Aslan]

Attack table calculations are incomplete in this guide and regarding these tests they also include the wrong numbers. On top of that, solid explanations are kind of only between the lines when it comes to weapon skill effect on dodge and miss.

[picartman]

Hey Oto, did you ever get a chance to creating a PVP guide against certain classes?

[Aslan]

Well thank you for those tests, it confirms everything seems to be working as intended .

What Taurenrogue meant it that the values differ from the ones used in the guide, base dodge being 5% with a +0.6% since the mob tested on was lvl 63 (315 def, with 1 def increasing the dodge chance by 0.04% minus 0.2% dodge chance since his own weapon skill was 305 resulting in 5.4% dodge, although his tests showed 5.6% which means its 0.2% off (due to not having done enough hits)
Same goes for miss, base rate of 24% witch +0.6% for the +15 def of the boss etc.

I believe to have read that you supported the 27% miss rate on bosses (+1% for each lvl above 60 whyever that is) and the 6.5% dodge.

On a sidenote, most crit cap calculations forget to substract 0.6% crit at the end due to 315 boss def. Your ingame auto attack tooltip shows your overall crit updated with weapon skill (0.04% crit per +1 weapon skill) but then the question, versus what level of opponent is that crit value? If its vs lvl 60's then you can fit 0.6% more crit in before you get crit capped. If anyone can confirm that the auto attack tooltip shows your crit versus an opponent of your own level, that would help improving the accuracy of a future formula that we could put into here.

[Youfie]

Well thank you for those tests, it confirms everything seems to be working as intended .

What Taurenrogue meant it that the values differ from the ones used in the guide, base dodge being 5% with a +0.6% since the mob tested on was lvl 63 (315 def, with 1 def increasing the dodge chance by 0.04% minus 0.2% dodge chance since his own weapon skill was 305 resulting in 5.4% dodge, although his tests showed 5.6% which means its 0.2% off (due to not having done enough hits)
Same goes for miss, base rate of 24% witch +0.6% for the +15 def of the boss etc.

I believe to have read that you supported the 27% miss rate on bosses (+1% for each lvl above 60 whyever that is) and the 6.5% dodge.

On a sidenote, most crit cap calculations forget to substract 0.6% crit at the end due to 315 boss def. Your ingame auto attack tooltip shows your overall crit updated with weapon skill (0.04% crit per +1 weapon skill) but then the question, versus what level of opponent is that crit value? If its vs lvl 60's then you can fit 0.6% more crit in before you get crit capped. If anyone can confirm that the auto attack tooltip shows your crit versus an opponent of your own level, that would help improving the accuracy of a future formula that we could put into here.

Oh, I just figured 664 hits weren't nearly enough to detect such small discrepancies (e.g. 5.6% vs 5.4% expected.. ). I think thousands and thousands of hits would have to be recorded to make such statement. Maybe I misunderstoof TaurenRogue's post tho.

Regarding the tooltip critrate, I'm pretty sure it is / should be calculated assuming an opponent of your own level, just like the armor reduction in the character sheet etc.

On Nostalrius, when you equip +Skill items, your tooltip critrate does NOT goes up if your skill was already equal to your own level * 5 before equipping it. To be sure it would be nice to check if +Skill while having a WS below your level * 5 and to check it the tooltip critrate rises. I think it would / should. Can't check it myself though.

[Aslan]

The tooltip goes up/down if you relog after switching your gear so upon login, the value should be accurate leaving us with a -0.6% critchance vs bosses --> stack 0.6% more crit without reaching the critcap.

As for 5.6% vs 6.5% dodge rate (and 24.6% vs 27% miss rate) on bosses I would stick to the previous numbers until anyone provides testing with more hits done, but thats up to everyone by themselves. Latter numbers provide a far lower critcap!

[TaurenRogue]

swstats from several full MC clears (thousands of hits) on rogue also go in favor of 24( +0.04% per difference in skill and mob defense) hitcap... they show <24,6 because of all the 60-62 trash in the instance

[Youfie]

The tooltip goes up/down if you relog after switching your gear so upon login, the value should be accurate leaving us with a -0.6% critchance vs bosses --> stack 0.6% more crit without reaching the critcap.

As for 5.6% vs 6.5% dodge rate (and 24.6% vs 27% miss rate) on bosses I would stick to the previous numbers until anyone provides testing with more hits done, but thats up to everyone by themselves. Latter numbers provide a far lower critcap!

Well, if the base miss rate with 300 WS against a boss is 24.6% for auto-attacks while dual wielding, it should be 5.6% on Specials under the same conditions, isn't it?

And the thing is I got a Miss on a Sinister Strike on a level 63 Boss with +7% Hit (2% gear, 5% Talents), which, unless I'm overlooking something, proves that the base Miss chance is higher that 7% for Specials on Nostalrius, matching the 8% / 27% pattern. Whether or not it was the case on retail is a different matter, of course.