Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Does anyone know a good rogue PvP guide for vanilla? I'm new to the game (level 37 now) and I really suck at PvP and would like to get better at it.

Here is a popular talent guide for PvP rogues;

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fheboxkZhfZV0es0hoo

Beyond that it's just out playing the other class and using your cooldowns and energy wisely.

Backintheda wrote:Here is a popular talent guide for PvP rogues;

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fheboxkZhfZV0es0hoo

Beyond that it's just out playing the other class and using your cooldowns and energy wisely.

not being a dick but that specs terrible. Murder is a strictly PvE talent.

Taking imp backstab but not going down to imp sprint makes absolutely no sense.

5/5 Opportunty and no points in Master of Deception makes no sense for a Hemo spec and stealth is complete garbage without 5/5 MoD

no imp sap = bad

imp ambush? again, poor use of points for a Hemo build.

TLDR that spec is a mess. it appears to me Hemo Daggers? which is a totally useless hybrid

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Anyway OP, for Rogue PvP spec your decision is Daggers or Hemo. there are a few variants of both. Dagger Specs have higher overall damage and rely on timing, strong openers, and crits. Hemo specs use Swords, Maces, or Fist Weapons and are more control/setup based. Hemo specs are preferred by the majority of tryhard PvP players

more general tips that would help you out at lower levels would be:
- always use crippling poison on both weapons
- cheap shot is almost always the best opener (with the only real exceptions being cases involving DR and sometimes using garrote or ambush to open Mages)
- use gouge as often as you can to pause the fight and pool energy
- don't spam mindlessly; always make sure you have enough energy to kick, blind, etc if you need to
- level cooking and use thistle tea often
- get the addons EnergyWatch and StunWatch

General Advice

Cooldowns Cooldowns are important to the class and offer you a lot of power over other classes and in most cases are the only way you can deal with certain classes. As such you do not need all of them. As it was explained to me: "You need some of your CDs against every class, but never do you need all of them against one."

Energy Managing energy is key to winning as a rogue. Best advice I have is to always keep 25 energy on the backburner vs casters for kick if you need a it. Most good players will see you at 0 energy and cast uninterrupted which forces you to blow vanish because it's 4 seconds before you can use anything else or to eat an attack.

Specs

Early on rogues will use a 21/8/22 build which focuses on daggers but gains preparation and cold blood as well as improved gouge in the combat tree. Using this your primary CP generator is backstab but you are to use it cautiously because recklessness with energy is a surefire way to die as a rogue and to hate the class. This spec constantly can turn grim fights with the guaranteed criticals on eviscerate thanks to Cold Blood. Though a common variation is to sacrifice Cold Blood and a few points out of assassination (4) to reach improved sprint which gives you more power and a better chance against mages when you can ween yourself off relying on the 2k eviscerate to save the day.


Mid Tier - Dagger daggers are still strong but once you get towards full bloodfang level or even AQ40 level your dagger spec of choice goes to Seal Fate which is 30/0/21 because the amount of critical strike makes it worthwhile. This build generates CP a lot quicker but takes a lot of getting used to, despite being of the same weapon and same attacks the playstyle is much different as you gouge a lot less and for 1.5 seconds less than normal.

Mid Tier - Dagger2 this is another Seal Fate variation where some rogues trade out preparation and actually opt for 31/8/12 which gives them 10 extra energy, maintains the combat benefits however loses on prep. This actually gimps you in longer fights or constant fighting as prep is very critical, however it has some pretty solid burst potential.

Mid Tier - Swords Alternatively a lot of rogue gain access to Chromatically Tempered Sword which makes them a very dominant force with a Hemo spec which has far more sustained damage than backstab as well as more availability. This brings your playstyle to typically what you'll feel in BC as they are basically the same playstyle. Some rogues prefer to wait until AQR from AQ40 (Ancient Qiraji Ripper) to go Hemo which is fine. Your spec for this is 21/0/30 since Cold Blood is a lot better than Premeditation.

End Tier Daggers still work but fall off in comparison to Hemo at this point. From Naxx trash you can get the Misplaced Servo Arm which a lot of people consider to be the overall best weapon for Hemo and I would agree and the tier 3 gear just fits it better as a spec than it would for an assassination build.

Also Ohhgee I agree on not Cheap Shot vs mages through a lot of trial and error when playing 21/8/22. Ambush is definitely the way to go because opening Cheap Shot tends to play out like: CS, they blink and immediately are casting polymorph and in most cases will get it off before you get to them unless you pre-run to their blink location. Or they will blink, run at you and max nova then poly. This forces you to vanish and any mage worth their salt is going to be ready to blizzard on point though you are now down a vanish. In the event you do not vanish the polymorph cast you get polymorphed and IF you run the pvp trinket can trinket it and maybe flip it around, but in most cases they get off polymorph and get situated and the game becomes a kite until you die.

Against any GOOD mage, you should always open with ambush to set a much stronger pace for the fight.


If we're talking with you playing Hemo then cheap shot is basically the only opener you can do unless you feel like using a wep swap macro to ambush and hope it does something damage-wise without talent improvements. I would never open Garrote on a mage given it doesn't silence in Vanilla so all I've succeeded in doing is creating an 18 second window of "lol can't blind or gouge them effectively unless they iceblock."


Edit: Accidentally put "Disagree" instead of "Agree", very seldom I actually agree with people forumwise.

So should I keep these guys stun locked? What should my rotation look like optimally? Should I use Slice and Dice like in PVE?

lite wrote:So should I keep these guys stun locked? What should my rotation look like optimally? Should I use Slice and Dice like in PVE?

With hemo the rotation is usually:
CS -> Hemo -> gouge (wait for dat energy) -> hemo -> Cold Blood + Evis (and that's usually enough to kill 80% of players.)
For mages and priests I usually just blow CB+evis right after gouge so they don't have time to shield.

P.S. remove SnD from your actionbar

There are no such things as "rotations" in PvP.

Open with Cheap Shot almost always except against Mages. Use Blind to stop enemies that are trying to gain distance on you and kite you, or in situations where you are about to get bursted down. Learn to not waste Vanish when you are dotted or near AoE unless you are confident you can reopen between damage ticks. Save your Kidney Shot for when your opponent is running out of defensive CD's and you have the points/energy ready to actually do heavy damage during your Kidney, rather that wasting it and then doing white hits and waiting on energy. USE KICK. So many Rogues allow themselves to be outplayed by casters because they spam damage too hard and never have the Energy ready to kick!!!

Again, using the term "rotation" in PvP makes me cringe because it's about situational decision making, not following a set sequence... but the closest thing to a cookie cutter master strat for duels would be:

Cheap -> Hemo -> Gouge -> pool energy -> Kidney -> Hemo/Tea spam -> CB Evisc

This "rotation" will allow you to kill 90% of bad/average/PvE geared/no PvP trinket players. Obviously a PvP spec player that knows what they're doing and are using proper PvP trinkets is going to have ways to prevent you from killing them with a simple rotation. But if what you're looking for is a general/basic method for killing enemy players, then this model should give you an idea.

The longer you play PvP at 60, the more comfortable you will be with how to use your abilities against each class. You'll learn tricks to use in specific situations that are much better than any "rotation" that me or anybody else can give you.

For example, my master strat for fighting warriors is to open with Cheap Shot, spam 2x Hemo, then immediately Blind and use Expose Armor with a macro that stops your auto attack. Doing this will guarantee you get a 3-4 point Expose (which is huge, especially with 2/2 Improved Expose Armor which all Hemo Rogues should have) up on the Warrior before he even has a chance to touch you. If you do it quickly enough, you're left with plenty of time to drop combat and restealth before your Blind ends. You'll want to reopen on the Warrior before he can shout and unstealth you. Reopen with Cheap Shot. It will be DR'd to only last 1 second, but what is important is that it gives you 2 combo points and you'll often make the Warrior waste his trinket on a 1 second stun. Then you can do 1, maybe 2 Hemos and use your Kidney Shot. Expose armor will still be up, and you will have plenty of energy to deal damage during the Kidney. The Warrior should die here unless he trinkets the kidney shot. If he does trinket, you still have the upper hand and can easily finish him off with a clean Vanish/reopen, or by using Tea, or by Crip Poison kiting.

Obviously that strategy is bunk against Dwarfs. And as always, fighting Orcs depends largely on RNG with stun resists. But maybe it gives you an idea of how there is no "rotation" but there are tons of different ways to logically use your abilities to control a fight and keep tons of pressure on your opponent.

This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm not quite 60 yet, but i just wanted to at least be able to defend myself when I encounter someone trying to gank me. This will help a lot when I'm 60 and do some more PvP.

Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it!

Ohhgee wrote:For example, my master strat for fighting warriors is to open with Cheap Shot, spam 2x Hemo, then immediately Blind and use Expose Armor with a macro that stops your auto attack.

Could you link said macro?