Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

15/31/5 here.

I have been told, and also theorycrafted myself that Combat Daggers is the best spec for PVE dps....

Even though I'm usually finishing in the top 10 on total damage for bosses and trash (according to realmstats), there are 3 or 4 rogues that still usually finish ahead of me (Combat sword rogues)

My MH is Gutgore Ripper (only because Perdi or Dragonfang hasn't dropped yet lol), OH Core Hound Tooth....



Maybe my rotation is jacked up, usually it goes something like this;

Ambush > BS > SnD > BS > BS > BS > (eviscerate if mob isn't dead by then) Then just replace Ambush with Backstab on pulls with multiple kill targets. I use adrenaline rush almost every time it's up, and blade flurry in close proximity multi-add fights.

If I'm doing something wrong, or you have any tips or recommendations, I'm all ears.


Thank you!

how are u allowed to use Gutgore RIpper in raids? Hasn't it been banned due the to debuff?

alextheone5 wrote:how are u allowed to use Gutgore RIpper in raids? Hasn't it been banned due the to debuff?

From my experience, Gutgore is fine, just like Lobotomizer, because the debuff has a low priority. It basically just bumps off a Deep Wounds debuff, and almost immediately gets bumped off right afterwards.

There don't seem to be anything wrong with your rotation, basically BS & SnD. Keep in mind on most trashes and on bosses with multi-targeting, Swords Rogues are usually ahead, cause we Daggers Rogues just suck when it comes to switch target, due to our low CP generation.

Other than that, if your Swords competitors have Vis'kag, it's basically a better Sword than Gutgore is a dagger. Things should even out with PB/DFB .

For raiding I'd suggest replacing Ambush by Backstab as your opener since you are using Improved Backstab but not Improved Ambush. I'm pretty confident that in the long run, Backstab is a better opener than Ambush because of talents choices.

The (way) higher crit chance on your Backstab will compensate the higher base damage but lower crit chance of your Ambush.

In short, your opener is preferably tossing a Backstab with 70-80% chance to crit than an Ambush with -30% crit chance.


Competing with Swords rogues on trash is perfectly doable with roughly the same gear. Especially in BWL. It just requires more focus and a perfect knowledge of when, how, what is getting pulled next and how, where it is tanked as well as how fast mobs die and how many E ticks you get before you're meleeing down the next pack.
You should also use every possible trick to maximize your dps when it comes to buffs/consumables/etc. The greater differences often rely on the smaller details.

Theorycraft is one thing, but in practice you'll never see a dagger rogue above of a sword rogue with equal gear, buffs, focus, etc. because getting close to the results of theorycrafting is harder in daggers than in swords for several obvious reasons spreadsheets can't model/take into account.

You can still piss on the slacker/bad sword rogues though

alextheone5 wrote:how are u allowed to use Gutgore RIpper in raids? Hasn't it been banned due the to debuff?

The debuff slot is low priority like youfie mentioned...it takes no precedence.

and don't worry, I just spent the minimum DKP on it lol, we've just had terrible luck when it comes to the Perditions dropping. Haven't seen it drop once in 4 months. So it's either between perditions or Dragonfang....whichever drops first I'll end up using in my MH

Honestly, for raw stats purposes, I might prefer the Dragonfang over the Perdi. Just hard to determine if that additional 16 AP/130hp and half a crit chance is worth giving up the extra 2 dps.

Slicy wrote:Competing with Swords rogues on trash is perfectly doable with roughly the same gear. Especially in BWL. It just requires more focus and a perfect knowledge of when, how, what is getting pulled next and how, where it is tanked as well as how fast mobs die and how many E ticks you get before you're meleeing down the next pack.
You should also use every possible trick to maximize your dps when it comes to buffs/consumables/etc. The greater differences often rely on the smaller details.

This is a very good point. Logically speaking, take 2 rogues with identical gear and spec...if one of them is on average 2 slower to the next add than the other....over the stretch of the entire instance you're talking about at least a few minutes worth of dps lost to the rogue with better transistions.




Thanks for the replies guys, lots of good stuff here.

Dragonfang Blade is better than Perdition's, by a small margin, unless you're crit capped.
And the stamina is nice for PvP!

Youfie wrote:From my experience, Gutgore is fine, just like Lobotomizer, because the debuff has a low priority.

Wrong!

In a 8 debuff raiding environment, these debuffs get pushed off and it's no big deal.

In a 16 debuff raiding environment (assuming everyone is doing all of their assigned debuffs), they'll cause the raid to lose thousands of damage every time they proc. They share priority with corruption.

Note: I have not tested this on Nost. Maybe Nost built their own non-blizzlike priority system that functions in a more reasonable way than how priorities are supposed to work. But if everything is working as intended, lobo/gutgore are not acceptable weapons in a 16 debuff environment.