Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

So as alliance, does the sword/mace bonus of humans make it mandatory to go human for raiding? How much dps would i be missing for end game content by rolling dwarf or something else on alliance? Im guessing sword combat spec is the normal raiding build?

Since we got +5 Skill in our Combat Tree, Human isn't THAT OP once you get Maladath as a non human.
And Combat Daggers is excellent too in raids, better on Tank & Spank fights, usually behind swords when there are several targets / needs to move & shit.

Just roll what you want. You'll be better as a Human if you play Swords before you get a Maladath as non-human Swords, otherwise the difference isn't that big.

No race is mandatory for any class. No one is going to care if you are Human or not. It's not a huge difference. Personally I'd prefer the stealth and dodge bonuses. Horde Rogues don't even get the option for this bonus, so you shouldn't be worried about it. Most Horde Rogues are Undead, which get practically nothing in a raid unless a boss uses fear.

Drain wrote:No race is mandatory for any class. No one is going to care if you are Human or not. It's not a huge difference. Personally I'd prefer the stealth and dodge bonuses. Horde Rogues don't even get the option for this bonus, so you shouldn't be worried about it. Most Horde Rogues are Undead, which get practically nothing in a raid unless a boss uses fear.

the small dodge increase is negligible

as night elf youre required to use seal fate for pve and as human youre required to use sword spec for pve

for pvp night elf racial adds 1 level of stealth and human reduces all enemy rogues level of stealth by 10 for 20 seconds.

dont roll horde rogue if youre serious about pvp. if you plan to mainly pve you should roll horde as you get windfury totem and there is less competition for rogues than on alliance.

orcs get 25 % base ap increase and trolls get 5 % attack speed. undead have a nice racial for some boss fights.

Humans aren't "required" to go Swords. Nor are NE "required" to go SF (SF ? You meant Combat Daggers I guess?), come on.

pasur wrote:

Drain wrote:dont roll horde rogue if youre serious about pvp.

I really hope this is a typo.. Forsaken Rogues are amazing in pvp.

Who the hell even uses Seal Fate in Classic to begin with? I'd be more accurate to say that it's "required" you never slot this talent. There's no logical reason to go past Cold Blood in Classic. 21 should be as far as you go in this tree here. Do you also slot Dark Pact on your Warlock?

Betta wrote:

pasur wrote:

Drain wrote:dont roll horde rogue if youre serious about pvp.

I really hope this is a typo.. Forsaken Rogues are amazing in pvp.

roll a 60 horde rogue, and you'll see how bad paladins / reck pallies / perception / and stoneform (removes blind) is.

the only "pro" of rolling horde rogue is that you can reliably dust players who don't have a skull of impending doom (you also cant dust mages and pallies)

since it sounds like you're interested in rolling an undead rogue in vanilla, i'd strongly advise you to check the pvp population census. there's a good 20 % more alliance rogues at 60 (there's a reason for this).

50 points of stealth detection means any human can see you from 30+ yds away, and you will be instantly forced to vanish. in addition, even if you do try to vanish, you'll be spotted and AoE'd out of stealth.

this also means you cannot cripple / gouge / net / run away and restealth against a human, unless they're bad.

Youfie wrote:Humans aren't "required" to go Swords. Nor are NE "required" to go SF (SF ? You meant Combat Daggers I guess?), come on.

no, obviously you're not required to go swords as human, but sword specialization is just too good to pass up.

Drain wrote:Who the hell even uses Seal Fate in Classic to begin with? I'd be more accurate to say that it's "required" you never slot this talent. There's no logical reason to go past Cold Blood in Classic. 21 should be as far as you go in this tree here. Do you also slot Dark Pact on your Warlock?

Uh what? Coming from a dagger rogue 31/8/12 is just fine in pvp, and it actually is much better in raids than say my current spec 22/8/21. Seal fate is also good for dagger rogues if you dont have 110 energy which is a MUST with daggers in pvp imo. nothing like ambush, gouge cold blood 5 point evicerate.
Plus when AQ comes out, there will be new ranks of backstab and evicerate making 31/8/12 even more viable. So yeah.....

Kraul44 wrote:

Drain wrote:Who the hell even uses Seal Fate in Classic to begin with? I'd be more accurate to say that it's "required" you never slot this talent. There's no logical reason to go past Cold Blood in Classic. 21 should be as far as you go in this tree here. Do you also slot Dark Pact on your Warlock?

Uh what? Coming from a dagger rogue 31/8/12 is just fine in pvp, and it actually is much better in raids than say my current spec 22/8/21. Seal fate is also good for dagger rogues if you dont have 110 energy which is a MUST with daggers in pvp imo. nothing like ambush, gouge cold blood 5 point evicerate.
Plus when AQ comes out, there will be new ranks of backstab and evicerate making 31/8/12 even more viable. So yeah.....

He was talking in PvE I think .
In PvP, 31/8/12 with 120 Energy is absolutely wonderful. But in PvE, of course it's better than 21/8/22 (complete garbage), but otherwise, 15/31/5 rules in a raid environment.