MC + Ony BIS? (PvE Server BiS

[Yrelius]

Hey guys,

I saw Oto's guide and how it has BiS for the PvP server currently, but I am on the PvE server and am wondering what is BiS over there for rogues right now? Thanks!

[XJ9]

Hey guys,

I saw Oto's guide and how it has BiS for the PvP server currently, but I am on the PvE server and am wondering what is BiS over there for rogues right now? Thanks!

Take the stat weights being used, take gear and plug in weights to get the effective attack power of each item. Sadly I don't have a list and I play on the PvE server but that's generally what I do. There's a guy in my guild who got bored one day I assume and got a list of the EAP off various items using the stat weights. Off top of my head, Nightslayer Shoulders beat out everything so far, tier 2 helm is pants and tier 1 helm is better until stat rework and Bloodfang gains like 60 effective attack power and becomes BiS.

Keep in mind gearing also changes based on swords or daggers once March hits and items like ACLG are introduced. Since come BWL I know Sword Rogues are pigeonholed into getting offhand Maladath (if not human) and 8/8 Bloodfang despite the inferior stats on some of the pieces like shoulders for the set bonus. Whereas for Dagger you're using ACLG through Naxxramas so 8/8 is impossible for you. So you're using things like those really nice BWL boots (Sword rogues cant lol), ACLG, Nightslayer Shoulders, etc.

[Fagatron]

Hey guys,

I saw Oto's guide and how it has BiS for the PvP server currently, but I am on the PvE server and am wondering what is BiS over there for rogues right now? Thanks!

Take the stat weights being used, take gear and plug in weights to get the effective attack power of each item. Sadly I don't have a list and I play on the PvE server but that's generally what I do. There's a guy in my guild who got bored one day I assume and got a list of the EAP off various items using the stat weights. Off top of my head, Nightslayer Shoulders beat out everything so far, tier 2 helm is pants and tier 1 helm is better until stat rework and Bloodfang gains like 60 effective attack power and becomes BiS.

Keep in mind gearing also changes based on swords or daggers once March hits and items like ACLG are introduced. Since come BWL I know Sword Rogues are pigeonholed into getting offhand Maladath (if not human) and 8/8 Bloodfang despite the inferior stats on some of the pieces like shoulders for the set bonus. Whereas for Dagger you're using ACLG through Naxxramas so 8/8 is impossible for you. So you're using things like those really nice BWL boots (Sword rogues cant lol), ACLG, Nightslayer Shoulders, etc.

What do u mean with ACLG getting introduced ? Most dagger rogues are already using those

[Aslan]

Nonononono please .
Attack power, crit, hit, str being ap and agi being ap and crit all play in a huge synergy with windfury, each other, miss chance, soft cap, crit cap, chance on hit spells, consumables you use, why would you ever rely on something like 1hit = x ap and 1 crit = y ap instead of using a proper spreadsheet that includes all these things.
How on earth can you think that its a good idea to compare standalone items without watching what it does to the whole mix.

[XJ9]

Hey guys,

I saw Oto's guide and how it has BiS for the PvP server currently, but I am on the PvE server and am wondering what is BiS over there for rogues right now? Thanks!

Take the stat weights being used, take gear and plug in weights to get the effective attack power of each item. Sadly I don't have a list and I play on the PvE server but that's generally what I do. There's a guy in my guild who got bored one day I assume and got a list of the EAP off various items using the stat weights. Off top of my head, Nightslayer Shoulders beat out everything so far, tier 2 helm is pants and tier 1 helm is better until stat rework and Bloodfang gains like 60 effective attack power and becomes BiS.

Keep in mind gearing also changes based on swords or daggers once March hits and items like ACLG are introduced. Since come BWL I know Sword Rogues are pigeonholed into getting offhand Maladath (if not human) and 8/8 Bloodfang despite the inferior stats on some of the pieces like shoulders for the set bonus. Whereas for Dagger you're using ACLG through Naxxramas so 8/8 is impossible for you. So you're using things like those really nice BWL boots (Sword rogues cant lol), ACLG, Nightslayer Shoulders, etc.

What do u mean with ACLG getting introduced ? Most dagger rogues are already using those

PvE Server

[XJ9]

Nonononono please .
Attack power, crit, hit, str being ap and agi being ap and crit all play in a huge synergy with windfury, each other, miss chance, soft cap, crit cap, chance on hit spells, consumables you use, why would you ever rely on something like 1hit = x ap and 1 crit = y ap instead of using a proper spreadsheet that includes all these things.
How on earth can you think that its a good idea to compare standalone items without watching what it does to the whole mix.

I'm not saying it's the be all end all but it definitely is a good place to begin looking. Obviously as you take into account more factors like higher gear level crit becomes less valuable as you reach the crit cap etc that it's foolish to follow a chart blindly. Look at Dragonfang Blade vs Perdition's Blade for example. In most cases DFB is better until you hit the crit cap, then Perdition's pulls ahead. That is an example of a devalued stat and why you shouldn't blindly follow a chart. However at the same time it's up to the person to have the common sense to understand these things and more often than not they look at the chart and just follow what's written. Obviously if I'm at the optimal % of hit I'm not going to keep stacking hit thinking it's equivalent to raw AP. Though if you're looking for a basic thing to compare this is functioning as long as they're items with similar stats as opposed to set pieces or items like ACLG that offer some bonus you really can't get anywhere else effectively.

For example breaking Devilsaur Set isn't really worth doing unless you can gain somewhere else to offset the loss. This is for things like "Oh well these pants are better than Devilsaur Pants so I should upgrade them." and not taking into account set bonus. Stat weights I'm using give hit % a value and unless I can make the upgrade exceed that value as well, it isn't worth it. This also serves to prevent people from going "Oh this has like 8 more attack power and a little more agility so it must be better!" This also works both ways, of course you want well rounded stat values and shouldn't just ignore hit completely because other items have higher EAP values, but it definitely gives you an idea of just how much EAP you should have on the upgrade to replace stats like crit and hit.

There's also a simulation spreadsheet I think Soyoen made around these forums but it uses reworked stats, fiddle around with that a bit when March comes with gear rework and the full MC loot tables, etc. However FOR RIGHT NOW ON THE PVE SERVER with our non-reworked gear and pre March loot tables this is very good for gauging item vs item since noone has gear close enough to worry about crit cap.

Also, just where in the hell do you think people gauge factor value to make these "proper spreadsheets" you're mentioning? Stat weights, otherwise they wouldn't include them and that generally is the way things like hit chance and things are sorted out because it breaks things down to one basic common value. Comparing crit to hit is an apple to an orange, if you give them each stat weights (usually attained through EXTENSIVE TESTING) you can see them. Things like Bloodfang, Ironfoe, Felstriker and such can't really be fully measured. Yet things like Devilsaur set and pre-rework tier pieces for rogues are very much able to be compared by this method.

[Yrelius]

So does anyone have an archived version of Oto's guide or just a list of the BiS for MC + Ony then? I tried using Wayback machine (website archives) with no luck. I'm not sure how to create a spreadsheet with this kind of data or even how to calculate actual crit chance, hit chance, etc per item.

[XJ9]

I'm not sure how to create a spreadsheet with this kind of data or even how to calculate actual crit chance, hit chance, etc per item.

The gear tells you the crit percentage and hit percentage. Only extra is that every 29 agility is 1% crit and 29 attack power.

[Soyoen]

I'm not sure how to create a spreadsheet with this kind of data or even how to calculate actual crit chance, hit chance, etc per item.

Calculation formulas doesn't differ, so I'm not sure why there should be a problem to calculate crit, hit & likewise. If you have problem with the current available spreadsheets I'm sure you can do manual edits into the backsheets containing the item data.

Regards
Soyo