Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Hello people, my question is simple, i built a talent i would like to try and i want your opinions.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0oxtZZE0fchhRo

Wouldn't elusivness be a strong talent to train for pvp. I know burning people down is the point to pvp. But survival is a key too. 1.5 min off of vanish cool down is Huge for survival. Imo

nubi wrote:Wouldn't elusivness be a strong talent to train for pvp. I know burning people down is the point to pvp. But survival is a key too. 1.5 min off of vanish cool down is Huge for survival. Imo

Yeah, u got a point

This looks like this is a Hemorrhage build, meaning you'll be using a slow MH weapon for maximal Hemo damage, and a fast OH weapon for poison procs (same weapon setup as a SS-based build). Therefore, I'd suggest dropping any of the dagger-related talents, and making a few other adjustments.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fheoRxzZhZxMe0chRo

Assassination:
- Even without Shiv, there's little utility to having Improved Poisons. You will typically PvP with dual crippling poison, with occasional mind-numbing poison OH/crippling MH given the situation--but 95% of the time will be dual crippling. The added value to +10% poison proc rate is greatly overshadowed by:

- Improved Expose Armor. This is an excellent talent, and Expose Armor used strategically in PvP (3-point expose on casters, 5-point on mail/plate) can help burst down a flag carrier or allow you to win a one-on-one. Ironically, Expose Armor is more effective on lower-armor targets due to armor mechanics, and if used intelligently can be extremely effective.


Combat:
- Improved Gouge. Don't underestimate the added utility of Improved Gouge. It allows an extra bandage tick, gives you just the amount of time to re-stealth before Gouge breaks, can provide you an extra tick of energy, etc. It's an extremely effective CC PvP ability and is definitely worth the 3-point investment.


Subtlety:
- As previously mentioned, we will move all eight talent points out of Opportunity and Improved Ambush. If an opportunity arises when you need to Ambush, you can weapon swap to a dagger and CB it. If your target is eating/drinking, Ambush will crit 100% of the time, making Improved Ambush useless. However, since you will have 3/3 Initiative and 2/2 Dirty Deeds, Cheap Shot will be your opener 95% of the time.

- Don't worry about Setup. Combo Points will be the least of your worries, with Hemorrhage (the most energy-efficient primary attack CP generator in Vanilla) and 3/3 Initiative & 2/2 Dirty Deeds. These points are better spent elsewhere.

- Elusiveness: This was mentioned by another poster, Elusiveness will help you in any extended combat situation (e.g. battlegrounds). Kind of a throwaway talent, but better than nothing.

- Camouflage: 5/5 Camouflage is a luxury that can only be afforded with a subtlety-heavy spec like this. It's an underrated talent that can allow you to be a CC nightmare with:

- Improved Sap: Since you'll be moving around at 90% speed in stealth with 5/5 Camouflage (or more if you have the right boots), this talent can help you CC someone and still get your CP on another target without needing to Vanish.

- Those two extra points: This is a decision that you can make based on your preference. I'd recommend either Sleight of Hand or Heightened Senses (my preference). Either one provides a marginal benefit, but would be more effective than really any other option.


If you're looking for a Backstab-based build that still has Preparation, the standard here is 21/8/22:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fheoRxzZGcZE0sc0hk

Some people prefer to move a point out of Murder and Ruthlessness for 2/2 Remorseless Attacks, and that one point in Camouflage could be in Elusiveness. Otherwise, there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room in this one. 2/2 Improved Sinister Strike is included more for stun locking purposes than weapon swapping to a slower weapon to SS a target, but this can be somewhat effective on a stubborn plate opponent.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0oxuZhZxMe0cGRo hemo
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0oxuZGcZq0ecc0k dagger
don't reinvent hot water google is your friend if ur new
you can argue expose over poisons in a hemo build but not in daggers
not specing improved sap 3/3 better mean you are pve speced or seal fate

TaurenRogue wrote:you can argue expose over poisons in a hemo build but not in daggers

Can you expand on this? I wholeheartedly disagree, I would actually argue the opposite. Since CP generation is lower with a dagger build (even Seal Fate), a higher % of your damage is from Backstab damage as opposed to finishers. This makes Expose Armor even more valuable for a dagger rogue who is trying to Backstab targets to death.

Expose is also more effective as you increase the number of physical attacking characters attacking a target, e.g. attacking a flag carrier with 2 or more melee/hunters.

Obviously we're talking about IMPROVED Poisons vs. IMPROVED Expose Armor, so it's not like you can't expose a target without the talent. But in my experience, there isn't an issue with maintaining snare on a target with dual crippling anyway, so the increased proc rate isn't very useful--whereas expose armor is frequently used and a 50% increase in armor reduction is pretty substantial when the ability is used strategically.

Unsouled wrote:

TaurenRogue wrote:you can argue expose over poisons in a hemo build but not in daggers

Can you expand on this? I wholeheartedly disagree, I would actually argue the opposite. Since CP generation is lower with a dagger build (even Seal Fate), a higher % of your damage is from Backstab damage as opposed to finishers. This makes Expose Armor even more valuable for a dagger rogue who is trying to Backstab targets to death.

Expose is also more effective as you increase the number of physical attacking characters attacking a target, e.g. attacking a flag carrier with 2 or more melee/hunters.

Obviously we're talking about IMPROVED Poisons vs. IMPROVED Expose Armor, so it's not like you can't expose a target without the talent. But in my experience, there isn't an issue with maintaining snare on a target with dual crippling anyway, so the increased proc rate isn't very useful--whereas expose armor is frequently used and a 50% increase in armor reduction is pretty substantial when the ability is used strategically.

I usually run 3p imp poisons and crip/mindnumbing in bg-s for the pesky casters/healers or randomly a wound /crip if im facing alot of dispells (3-4 stacks of wound = 3-4 casts = 4.5-6 sec of removing wound).

Now that aside presuming you dont have a proc trinket 100% of your damage is physical with any of the 3 poison setups and therefore expose has the same effect for both builds. However u cant realistically build a 4-5 combo expose with a dagger build in any pvp situation and expect to use it before cc-ed, while this is much easier as hemo.

Cheapshot -> backstab -> 3-4p expose = no energy left
Cheapshot -> hemo -> 3-4p expose = energy left for a gouge or a blind into a restealth

Ignoring the duel scenarios and focusing on bg-s here the above is 90% of why u dont run expose in daggers imho unless seal fate speced and you can build combos faster.

Also in a dagger build you are much more likely to run 1 crippling + mindnumbing due to you having 2 fast weaps (1.3 - 2.0 on both) and the 3 points in poisons make it more reliable to get 1 or both off.

Later on with a lot of random hit on gear imp poisons can go to vile poison for the anti-dispell mechanic

TaurenRogue wrote:I usually run 3p imp poisons and crip/mindnumbing in bg-s for the pesky casters/healers or randomly a wound /crip if im facing alot of dispells (3-4 stacks of wound = 3-4 casts = 4.5-6 sec of removing wound).

Now that aside presuming you dont have a proc trinket 100% of your damage is physical with any of the 3 poison setups and therefore expose has the same effect for both builds. However u cant realistically build a 4-5 combo expose with a dagger build in any pvp situation and expect to use it before cc-ed, while this is much easier as hemo.

Cheapshot -> backstab -> 3-4p expose = no energy left
Cheapshot -> hemo -> 3-4p expose = energy left for a gouge or a blind into a restealth

Ignoring the duel scenarios and focusing on bg-s here the above is 90% of why u dont run expose in daggers imho unless seal fate speced and you can build combos faster.

Also in a dagger build you are much more likely to run 1 crippling + mindnumbing due to you having 2 fast weaps (1.3 - 2.0 on both) and the 3 points in poisons make it more reliable to get 1 or both off.

IMO, as a rogue you do not end up getting CC'd as often as you imply, and I find that it is still easy to get a 3-5 point expose on a target with daggers and make use of it. (I don't necessarily agree that you need to keep the enemy stun locked into an expose armor and then re-stealth to open.)

However if you want to run Crippling + Mind Numbing often, improved poisons can definitely make that a more reliable setup, I agree 100% with you on that.

Seems like it comes down to playing style. I would definitely recommend to OP that if they plan on running Crippling/Mind Numbing often, Improved Poisons is something to think about.

hemo imp kidney
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0RxkhZZxMe0chRR

hemo imp gouge
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0RxkZhZxMe0chRR

daggers
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#fhe0RxkZGcZqMIcc0k

you can mostly play around with imp poisons, imp gouge, heightened senses, imp expose armor, MoD/Camouflage points

not worth going daggers at 60 yet as there aren't any daggers available to you that are worth using over 149/151 top end swords (Krol/Dal'Rend)

Hello guys,

Ive been looking around for some different builds, but can't seem to find one i like. Therefor i made my own:=) I would like to hear what you think, and if i could do anything to improve it!

Its a dagger build, based on full nuke (Ganking, nuking healers in BG's etc.)

Here's the build: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=1121 ... 530300301e

I hope you will take you time, and help me make this build even better

Best regards
Selvros