PVE Hunter tree

[Eyeful]

HoJ is best 2nd trink, not for the proc, but for the +20 ap (I mean Raptor Strike -could- benefit from the proc too). Like I said, it wasn't a huge thing, but having +20ap constant over using something with a long CD, or proc only enhancments, the 20ap goes a bit further than most. I just didn't list it on my list since melee will cut your throat for even looking at it.

Going through the list, your other options are stuns, resists, or mp5 esk trinkets.

Linken's Boomer = 113-187dmg (150avg), 3m CD, ~0.83 dps [also has chance for stun/disarm]
Tidal Charm = 3s stun, 15m cd [pvp mainly]
Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector = 10s ranged root, 10m CD, req 210 eng [warning: can backfire]
Smolderweb's Eye = 5dmg/2s over 1m, 3m CD, ~0.83dps [I think?]
Mark of Resolution = absorb 3-650dmg, 30m CD, [+1% stun/fear resist; helps in pvp and ony? maybe?]
Shard of Afrasa = 5 mp-hp/5

As you pointed out, the hp-mp/5 is a great contender for 2nd trinket, but I think the 20ap (and somewhat trivial proc) from HoJ might be better. However, either would be totally acceptable imo.

[DeeMarie]

Ah yes you're right, I misread the other thread where someone said it wasn't working for ranged, I thought they meant the AP! Guess we're going to see certain people *coughroguescough* unhappy with hunters soon :p

[Karmacode]

Blackhand's Breadth + Devilsaur Eye, FD switch Eye for a passive trinket if you have one.

This is assuming 50 class quests are in at launch, which we have yet to receive information about.

[Eyeful]

@Karma
Using the Wayback to allahkazham's DB, they do not have any items in relation to those quest chians at level 50. Also looking further, the wowwiki is showing them not being added till patch 1.7. They did say, however :

To summarize, what will be available at launch :
Dungeons : ....Temple of Atal'Hakkar....

So we know they are going to have the dungeon itself available at launch, but I doubt the quest rewards in are the game yet.

"FD switch for a passive trinket"

Correct me if I am wrong, but FD on raid bosses always seemed too high to not get resisted. The result was most of the time, your FD would be resisted, and you'd lose dps due to the break in rotations. I tried many times with my ES on another server, and the FD just seemed to get resisted way too much to be handy. Also specing into imp FD seems silly just for a swap. Perhaps detargeting the mob improves chances? As in the game sees you casting FD on nothing resulting in a normal chance to succeed, while targeting it's -casting- FD on said target with resistances? Silly thought, but hey, you never know.

[Karmacode]

FD switching worked in the test sessions. Certain boss fights have insanely dense combat pulses though, which can make it slightly trickier, but queuing trinket swaps with TrinketMenu/ItemRack or similar should let you FD switch 99% of the time.

If class quests aren't in at launch (there's been a bit of confusion regarding what quests are in or not, for example Fordring's chain is confirmed to be in on launch) then any second trinket (Blackhand's Breadth is a given) gives very marginal benefits. HoJ could be used for the AP as stated earlier in the thread, I guess.

[cozeh]

Can hunter keep up with rogues/warriors/mages in PvE DPS? Or are we always going to be lagging behind by a lot on the meters?

[Eyeful]

Can hunter keep up with rogues/warriors/mages in PvE DPS? Or are we always going to be lagging behind by a lot on the meters?

Generally, no. Locks, mages, rogues will pull ahead at the start, with warriors and hunters around the same. Then when warriors get some decent gear, they pull ahead quite a bit in dmg. Hunters on the other hand, tend to lack in dps for a very long time. If they want to be clawing for the top spot in raids, they generally need to go all out on consumes to get there.

Also with the 8 debuff slots, instead of 16 allowing us some rap from mark, we're at even more of a disability for damage. You are honestly only taken for tranq shots on a few bosses needed, and to mop up tier gear that no one else can use. Guilds generally don't even take in more than 4, if they are built for raids.

[mrmr]

Can hunter keep up with rogues/warriors/mages in PvE DPS? Or are we always going to be lagging behind by a lot on the meters?

Generally, no. Locks, mages, rogues will pull ahead at the start, with warriors and hunters around the same. Then when warriors get some decent gear, they pull ahead quite a bit in dmg. Hunters on the other hand, tend to lack in dps for a very long time. If they want to be clawing for the top spot in raids, they generally need to go all out on consumes to get there.

Also with the 8 debuff slots, instead of 16 allowing us some rap from mark, we're at even more of a disability for damage. You are honestly only taken for tranq shots on a few bosses needed, and to mop up tier gear that no one else can use. Guilds generally don't even take in more than 4, if they are built for raids.

I disagree.
Hunters' DPS will be fine and good (read, better than most casters and sub-par melee) till the end.
Given the same conditions, they could even top the meters.

Very often, hunters are used as "support" class, that's it, TSA for the melee group.
Add on top of this most hunters don't even know their class.
If you roll horde, you will not ever see your agility totem..."cause melee NEED WindFury".

I will tell you this. Give hunters a "Leader of the Pack" aura and very few will keep on damage with them.

In the end, it's all about the player behind the keyboard.

Nostalrius is a "new" server, so, you know what? You should just forget about all previous pservers you played.
Don't let "feenix" poison your mind about this subject.
There, melee classes can stack up dozens of buffs (not blizzlike at all) and reach unbelivable AP/crit levels.
Hunters, there, are quite bad...especially on the x14 server...that's why they are used as "tranq/support class". A recent patch just addressed Auto/Aimed shot damage after 4 years. Another reason that gave hunters the bad aura they have.

[Eyeful]

I disagree, with uh, your disagreement.

Not being rude, but I never said I played on Feenix, nor used that server as basis for my replies. I will say, however, that my basis on this matter relate to the old server Scriptcraft (which wasn't that great of scripting), and the latter Valk rus server, which is noted to be of the better scripted vanilla servers.

Both of the occasions, playing my hunter, you do in fact have to be a tryhard to be on par with other classes in terms of damage. Only a few fights, where you can unload all you want w/o worrying about threat, could you be on par with the minimals. However, hunter dps was never a high tier, not even with a "fresh server".

Assuming most of our guild was considered competent, as in clearing BWL in 3 hours or less in a mock up of preraid/t1/t2, our hunters were never doing more than rogues, locks, or mages. However, as I did mention before, due to debuff slots, perhaps this is subject to change. As we ourselves receive a gimp (no mark), perhaps rogues and warriors will be on par (yet under mages and warlocks due to curses boosting a lot).

Closing, I did note that hunters aren't always on the down low. With gear, our time to shine does rise. Mainly, a significant boost to hunters is when a player(s) gets their 8/8 t2, which gives the debuff of +450 rap to ranged attacks. Like warriors, I believe we shine over time, while other classes jump out of the gate faster.

[DeeMarie]

On Feenix it seemed that hunter performed better out of the gate than other classes, slowly being eclipsed by warr/rogue as time went on/MC progressed. Not sure how much of that was due to itemisation though, but hunters were crippled as well back then with a lot of bugs.

It will be interesting to see how we perform under Nos scripting