Nightninja's Melee Hunter Guide

[Renew]

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidO ... Raid=33925

great dps, nightninja...on the same level as other useless specs

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 26&Fight=1 :


i mean, i dont have BWL gear on PvE server(and old bad stats), but still do more then double of your dmg (and any other hunter too)

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 13&Fight=7

[Egriz]

What's the point of your post? When has he ever claimed this build even remotely revolved around his DPS. It's all about nightfall uptime.

[Cysthen]

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidOverview.aspx?Raid=33925

great dps, nightninja...on the same level as other useless specs

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 26&Fight=1 :


i mean, i dont have BWL gear on PvE server(and old bad stats), but still do more then double of your dmg (and any other hunter too)

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 13&Fight=7

On Ragnaros I stand on the opposite side of the melee because I am a mana user and don't recieve windfury totem. I love how you pick the worst possible example. Other bad examples are Razor, Chrom, Nef because I am doing more than just focusing dps. Using tranq/kiting/frost trap/killing shaman totems on nef/infernals and such.

My actual page has a huge fluctuation in damage numbers. I haven't been going very hard recently but I am streaming tonight and have farmed every consumable available and will try to push numbers.
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Playe ... Nightninja

Here is an example of Flamegor with Rank 1 Wingclip and only Mongoose Elixir without World Buffs.
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... t=26032446


Now consider had I used Mana Potions and Rank 3 Wingclip which would of added 45 dps alone, along with other such buffs as juju/worldbuffs that I plan on using tonight. I very well could of been right up there with the other hunters and perhaps out dps'd a few people.

Also for the record in Molten Core I kind of casually walk around and spam my rotation macro because its farm content. Good example.

What's the point of your post? When has he ever claimed this build even remotely revolved around his DPS. It's all about nightfall uptime.

And High Uptime Indeed.

I am looking forward to begin pushing numbers with actual consumables, I have been kind of busy and just casually raiding so I am going to put a little more time into farming and see if I can get closer to other hunters in our community, regardless of these players bashing me not considering the bonus to caster dps I provide.

[Cysthen]

Edit: Added Truestrike Shoulders to my BIS Preraid list.

Shoulders: Truestrike Shoulders or Black Dragonscale Shoulders (Orcs Only).
Enchant: 30 Attack Power (When you get ZG exalted).
(BIS until Taut Dragonhide Shoulderpads).

Someone pointed out to me for Alliance and Non Orcs my list didn't have hitcap.
I assume I overlooked that as I play an orc ingame.

Also quickly let me add that Taut Dragonhide Shoulderpads is better only if you have Boots of the Shadowflame for hit. If not Tier 2 is currenly 23 agi/2 hit. (Slightly better than Truestrike).

[Mchayes]

No sticky?

[Plask]

> More Nightfall uptime than Enhancement/Retribution Hybrids.
Only the most elitist will understand.

Figures since they don't have any GCD's to spam. Then again what about warriors who have hamstring and Flurry?

> This is how you become more useful than the previous views on hunters.
This is a little better on Horde. (Windfury).

Nightfall warriors also get Windfury.

WHY MELEE HUNTERS HAVE SWAG AND YOUR HUNTER DOESN'T.

> Highest Nightfall uptime than any other class. Wingclip/Arcane Shot.

> Only class that can proc Nightfall with a ranged attack. (Arcane Shot).

> More Damage than traditional hunters with 10+ casters in the raid.

Hunters dont have higher uptime. Arcane shot is GCD and does not contribute to uptime. Warrior Nightfall have higher uptime with hamstring spam and flurry.

Also, you need to compare DPS loss between having a hunter go Nightfall between having one of your warriors doing it. To be precice, what you need to compare is the difference between warrior+NF vs warrior w/o NF, and hunter+NF vs hunter w/o NF. If you can show comparable numbers I would consider your arguments. However, the fact still remains even if you did that Nightfall warriors with flurry spec have high uptime and higher damage.

This thread didn't really prove any advantages having a hunter Nightfall over a Fury. You pretty much stated what hunter can do but the fact that there is no comparisons nor material to prove WHY "MELEE HUNTERS HAVE SWAG", it comes of as either troll thread or pure incompetence (If you're actually serious you should reformat the thread to a more scientific approach).

I took the liberty to look up your raidstats, here is your latest raid:

Just by looking at your DPS I can already draw the conclusion that whatever arguments you made falls short in practice (or you're not capable of putting them into practice).

> Example.

Now I realize this is not the current patch but I will look for more current examples down the road.
This is Predictible's highest Patchwerk dps Record.
(Well known hunter in the Vanilla Community).

How is this relevant? What are you trying to prove?

[ArtourBabaev]

Also, you need to compare DPS loss between having a hunter go Nightfall between having one of your warriors doing it. To be precice, what you need to compare is the difference between warrior+NF vs warrior w/o NF, and hunter+NF vs hunter w/o NF.

Warriors are the best, but i think the most relevant comparison is DPS between normal hunter with TSA in a melee group vs nightfall hunter in the same situation. Raids are gonna have 2 hunters in melee groups with TSA anyways.

[Cysthen]

Sorry for the late reply. Fury warriors with Flurry spamming Hamstring. Yes you have a point but let me point out the obvious. A Fury Warrior using actually good weapons will out dps a Ranged Hunter in endgame content and you bring 2 Hunters regardless for Tranq Shot.

That picture of Patchwerk dps is relevant because it shows that a hunter doing 200 dps with 30% uptime is better than a Ranged Hunter with said amount of casters in the raid.
(I can already pull more than 200 dps and I would personally say uptime is 40-60%).
(It also shows how much a Fury Warrior can out dps a BIS Ranged Hunter.).

Your guys links of my worst ever dps in casual molten cores is kind of lame. I don't use consumables in molten core. I consistantly pull 200+ in BWL without world buffs.

I had a chat with a enhancement shaman earlier today and he said he pulls 250, which I have done before without world buffs. My dps fluctuates based on whether or not I am in a windfury group or the situation of the fight.

If you have any other specific questions regarding specific fights and what I do during said fight rather than linking 130 dps on a ragnaros fight where I pulled 200+ last week while running in and out using arcane shot proccing nightfall 7 times feel free to ask.

That latest raid was a casual molten core m8.

https://www.twitch.tv/cysthen/v/56435746

At 2 hours 20 minutes you can see me pull 220 dps on rag running in and out without consumables.

If you skip to 3 hours, you can see my dps on Vael and I forgot to change my macro to use r3 Wingclip.
Which would of upped my dps by 45 as its a global. Its 208 without r3.
WITH TRANQUIL AIR TOTEM INSTEAD OF WINDFURY.
With Mana Potions as you can see thats easily 250 with consumables, without Firewater.

I have easily hit 300+ occasionally with Windfury/World Buffs. It fluctuates a lot because circumstances are not always the same every raid.

Most of the time I have Windfury, I would of preferred to be in the tank group on that Vael attempt because I have pushed close to 400 on that fight before.

And Arcane shot does contribute to uptime, stop pretending there are fights where you aren't able to melee the entire time. I got knocked back at the end of that Vael attempt and you can clearly see it proc'd.

Warriors are the best, but i think the most relevant comparison is DPS between normal hunter with TSA in a melee group vs nightfall hunter in the same situation. Raids are gonna have 2 hunters in melee groups with TSA anyways.

Nightfall Hunter brings TSA as well.

[Plask]

Also, you need to compare DPS loss between having a hunter go Nightfall between having one of your warriors doing it. To be precice, what you need to compare is the difference between warrior+NF vs warrior w/o NF, and hunter+NF vs hunter w/o NF.

Warriors are the best, but i think the most relevant comparison is DPS between normal hunter with TSA in a melee group vs nightfall hunter in the same situation. Raids are gonna have 2 hunters in melee groups with TSA anyways.

I think you got it all mixed up. Yes you will have 2 hunters regardless, but the question is where the biggest DPS loss occurs, having 1 hunter be gimped as NF hunter or having 1 warrior do it. I've seen some respectable NF numbers from Fury Warriors and believe they're not overly trashing their DPS by doing so. Will this said warrior lose more DPS then the Nightfall Hunter does? This thread is nothing more then a attempt at justifying a certain playstyle because a player enjoys playing that way. Nothing wrong with playing in whatever way you think's fun but don't claim it's better than it actually is.

And Arcane shot does contribute to uptime, stop pretending there are fights where you aren't able to melee the entire time. I got knocked back at the end of that Vael attempt and you can clearly see it proc'd.

You got knocked on Vaelstrasz. So this scenario involves standing wrong/wiping on Vaelstrasz. Moot point. Can we atleast assume the Nightfaller is able to melee the boss for uptime (which is the case 99% of the time), then Arcane shot has no value, it triggers GCD.

Nightfall Hunter brings TSA as well.

So does a non-Nightfall Hunter.. (??)

[Cysthen]

I would personally say from my experience that Meleeing as a Hunter pulling all stops and rank 3 wingclip, which will be much easier to do once AQ is released with the release of the AQ20 mana return gloves.
(Also considering melee has more consumables to use than ranged, example: Firewater/Str E'ko).

The dps difference will remain 50-70ish lower than a Ranged Hunter, with rank 1 probably more or less 100+ less.

As you can see in the Patchwerk dps with Predictable, that was a hunter dps record.
The warriors are doing 300+ more dps.

Also let me add that in Naxx Hunters lose 3% overall damage as the survival talents do not include undead enemies. That and in AQ40, seeing as T2.5 is garbage and Nightfall Hunters have about 7 upgrades in comparison to a Ranged Hunters 3 or 4 upgrades the gap between dps should get even smaller.