Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Is just 3 points in Frenzy enough? With how often my cat crits, I feel like 60% chance to proc Frenzy is enough. The buff seems to be active pretty often.

Or should I put 4 points into it? With my current spec, it's either 4 points in Frenzy, or 3 points in Frenzy + 1 point in Imp Mend Pet, or Spirit Bond.

what is that spec for

4 points has my vote

Böw wrote:what is that spec for

BM, leveling. Only level 39 so far.

maud wrote:4 points has my vote

Yeah, I decided to just put the 4th point in there, since 1% health every 10 seconds is negligible, and I never really find myself really needing to cleanse debuffs from my pet either. (and even then, 15% chance on tick is stupidly low)

well for raiding you get 5/5 so might as well right

Böw wrote:well for raiding you get 5/5 so might as well right

Even in raiding, I'd go 4/5 points just for that extra bit of min-maxing. With 80% chance to proc, and a 20% base crit chance for your pet, you'd have to get some really, really shitty RNG in order for Frenzy to even drop off.

But aren't you pretty much forced to be 31-point MM in raids, for trueshot?

Here's the way that I'm looking at it...

Considering the buff lasts for 8 seconds...ask yourself two questions:

1) How often does your pet crit? If your pet isn't critting more than once every 8 seconds...then you want 5/5 so that when it does you guarantee this buff. However...

2) How long are your fights lasting? I'm talking about the bulk of your fights...the 90% against quest mobs and trash. If your fights are fairly short as it is (let's say less than 10 seconds)...then 5/5 is likely a waste and you're prob better off just going 0/5 and grabbing other utility talents instead, right? Because you're already doing enough DPS to down the mobs fairly quickly. I mean honestly think about that...

I just re-rolled a hunter, currently only level 15, and I'm taking mobs down in under 10 seconds with my crappy gray/white gear (and pet of course).

If you have nowhere else to spend the points...I'd argue that going 3/5 is probably a good balance...at least to guarantee some up time for the later instances when mobs begin to take a little longer to go down.

AgentMulder wrote:1) How often does your pet crit? If your pet isn't critting more than once every 8 seconds...then you want 5/5 so that when it does you guarantee this buff. However...

With the 15% crit talent, your pet should be sitting at minimum 20% crit chance. (base melee + 15% talent), and with cats having attack speed of 1.2-1.4, getting 1 crit every 8 seconds is really easy.

AgentMulder wrote:Because you're already doing enough DPS to down the mobs fairly quickly. I mean honestly think about that...

There are no other better choices.

All of the other talents are pretty crap for leveling. 2% health every 10 seconds is negligible, clearing debuffs from pet isn't too useful either because there are almost no mobs that have debuffs bad enough that you want to dispel them, Imp Eyes of the Beast is a joke, Imp Aspect of the Monkey is a joke, and Imp Aspect of the Hawk not only has a small proc chance, but in my experience, 90% of the time it procs when the mob is almost dead. Also you save a shitload of mana from not having to switch back and forth between Hawk and Tiger all the time.

+30% pet attack speed is pretty much the only logical choice.

AgentMulder wrote:I just re-rolled a hunter, currently only level 15, and I'm taking mobs down in under 10 seconds with my crappy gray/white gear (and pet of course).

Yeah, you feel uber powerful now, but by level 25 or so, you won't be killing things in 10 seconds anymore, and it just takes longer and longer from there, unless you spend tons of gold on blue weapons.

But still, even if you're killing things in "10 seconds", +30% pet attack speed is still the best choice, because all the other choices are shit.

The amount of points you use should depend on the pet type. There's a few things to take into account.
1) A pet with a faster attack speed is bound to see more crits than a pet with a slower attack speed. This will directly reflect how many Frenzy points can accomplish the same thing. The white dps is still the same, but more attack speed=more crits. Frenzy does not take into account the size of the crits, so more=better.
2) Pet abilities that cannot crit cannot proc Frenzy. Claw is a good spammable to get a crit. Bite has a long CD. Other things, such as Scorpid Poison, cannot crit and thus are not good for BM.
3) The energy talent is great with Claw, since it'll pay for more Claws, which mean more chances to crit. The talent is not so good with Bite, since it has a CD. This means a Claw pet can take up the Energy in place of maxing Frenzy, using more strikes to do the same thing. Bite, due to its CD, cannot spam, and thus needs more into Frenzy.

Basically, if you use pets spamming Claw, just take 3/5 Frenzy and 2/2 Energy. If you use pets with Bite, you might want to take up 5/5 Frenzy and 0/2 Energy. Bite pets really waste the energy talent since they have no way to spam out the extra points. They're better off just ensuring they get the buff from the crits they do get.

I'm sorry I was thinking the wrong talents. In raiding you don't put any points into frenzy. But when you're leveling there's really no reason not to get 5/5. I mean. You're leveling. You can't really spec incorrectly.