Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

I'm pretty sure base damage is not calculated correctly on this server. I know other physical damage classes have been talking about it and I'm curious if any other hunters have noticed this. I'm pretty certain that base damage, as shown on your character screen, is purely a matter of your weapon's base damage and your attack power, with weapon speed having nothing to do with it. Where weapon speed comes in is to factor with your base damage to give your overall autoattack DPS. It appears to me that whatever formula they use to calculate your base damage is accounting for weapon speed which it is not supposed to do, and is in effect greatly lowering the base damage of your character. These are my character stats when I switched from Bloodseeker to Rhok'delar, counting 5/5 ranged weapon specialization:

Bloodseeker
85 - 128 damage
Speed: 3.30 (2.87 with 15% quiver)
32.3 damage per second
+14 AP from the 7 agility
Character base damage: 450 - 496 autoattack
Character autoattack DPS: 164.9

Rhok'delar
89 - 166 damage
Speed: 2.90 (2.52 with 15% quiver)
44.0 damage per second
+34 AP (should be +17 but for some reason it is shown and counted twice)
Character base damage: 416 - 498 autoattack
Character autoattack DPS: 181.1

So switching from Bloodseeker to Rhok'delar decreases my minimum base damage by a huge 34 damage and increases my maximum base damage by a paltry 2 damage, even though the base damage of the weapons by themselves both increase by 4 for minimum and 38 for maximum. This is considering that Rhok'delar also gives +20 net RAP over Bloodseeker. The only possible way I can see these numbers making any sense is that the base damage calculation is accounting for weapon speed, and since Rhok'delar is quite a bit faster that is gimping the base damage. However, I'm fairly certain it is not supposed to be this way as weapon speed is taken into account for the overall autoattack DPS:

character base damage / weapon speed = autoattack DPS

But if weapon speed is being accounted for in base damage then it's being double counted to gimp autoattack DPS and especially multishot and aimed shot hits because those are based on only base damage.

I'm sure this is pretty elementary for most people but I just want to make sure I'm understood.

probably worth posting this in bug reports

keil wrote:probably worth posting this in bug reports

I want to confirm that it's a bug first. I'm fairly certain that base damage didn't work this way in retail but I'm not 100% because it's been a long time.

Your character sheet damage is simply your auto shot damage. Auto shot damage is not normalized for weapon speed, and therefore a much slower weapon like Bloodseeker receives more raw +damage from ranged attack power (plus ammo).

So yes, your average auto shot with Bloodseeker does more damage than your average auto shot with Rhok'delar, but this should make some intuitive sense since it's so much slower. Note however that your average aimed and multi-shot will be higher with Rhok'delar than with Bloodseeker, because aimed and multi-shot use a fixed 2.8 weapon speed to calculate +damage from RAP. They do not use your character sheet (auto shot) damage as a baseline.

These are the formulas for vanilla hunter damage:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic/82 ... ntry199978

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Auto Shot damage: SlayingMod*(AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed+RWSMod*(RAP/14*WeaponSpeed+Scope+AverageWeaponDamage))
Aimed Shot damage: SlayingMod*(AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed+RWSMod*(RAP/14*2.8+Scope+AverageWeaponDamage+AimedShotBonus))
Multi-Shot damage: BarrageMod*GSMod*SlayingMod*MSCoEff*(AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed+RWSMod*(RAP/14*2.8+Scope+AverageWeaponDamage+MultiShotBonus))

The only bug with Rhok'delar currently is that it's giving double the intended RAP (17 -> 34), which makes it very good.

Bloodseeker is equal to Rhok'delar if played right, mostly depends on what you're used to cycle wise. In BWL we get another crossbow anyway.

Overtime wrote:Bloodseeker is equal to Rhok'delar if played right, mostly depends on what you're used to cycle wise. In BWL we get another crossbow anyway.

Stop killing my Rhok'Delar hype T_T

Marisi wrote:Your character sheet damage is simply your auto shot damage. Auto shot damage is not normalized for weapon speed, and therefore a much slower weapon like Bloodseeker receives more raw +damage from ranged attack power (plus ammo).

So yes, your average auto shot with Bloodseeker does more damage than your average auto shot with Rhok'delar, but this should make some intuitive sense since it's so much slower. Note however that your average aimed and multi-shot will be higher with Rhok'delar than with Bloodseeker, because aimed and multi-shot use a fixed 2.8 weapon speed to calculate +damage from RAP. They do not use your character sheet (auto shot) damage as a baseline.

These are the formulas for vanilla hunter damage:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic/82 ... ntry199978

Code: Select all

Auto Shot damage: SlayingMod*(AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed+RWSMod*(RAP/14*WeaponSpeed+Scope+AverageWeaponDamage))
Aimed Shot damage: SlayingMod*(AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed+RWSMod*(RAP/14*2.8+Scope+AverageWeaponDamage+AimedShotBonus))
Multi-Shot damage: BarrageMod*GSMod*SlayingMod*MSCoEff*(AmmoDPS*WeaponSpeed+RWSMod*(RAP/14*2.8+Scope+AverageWeaponDamage+MultiShotBonus))

The only bug with Rhok'delar currently is that it's giving double the intended RAP (17 -> 34), which makes it very good.

Thanks a lot, that clears that up. I didn't know aimed and multi were based on a theoretical 2.8 attack speed. My main concern (which I didn't really say) was thinking that the lower average autoattack damage would lead to lower aimed and multi shots.

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic/82 ... breakdown/

Only ~ a 6 dps difference in theory between the 2 weapons. And as others have said, autos are not normalized, the rest of the hunter attacks are so slower weps are having a bigger multiplier. The speed of rhok still has it doing more auto dps though.

Did you scope your Rhok'Delar?