Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

[yarlharl]

Hi guys!

Recently started playing on this awesome server, and ive never experienced or player vanilla so here im, and been loving it this far . Just got one question on my mind. Im leveling with priest now, and im lvl 35 atm. Always when i get in 1v1 duels against warriors/rogues/feral druids they just wreck me totally, there's nothing i can do besides wanding and dotting. If i fear rogue, it will FOTM since all of them most likely are undeads, warriors just wrecking me with their whirlwind axe and i can't do anything pretty much. Does it get better at any point against melee classes or is it the truth that rogues/warriors were that op back in vanilla?

[Melikecookies]

Most classes lack gear and/or abilities to perform well until high levels.
Hunters and rogues for example are beasts no matter the level,while clothies(except maybe locks)suffer until they get some abilities and more stamina.
If i am to level on a PvP server i would always stack stamina on my clothies to avoid getting two shotted.
If you wanna PvP as a priest you should roll Horde,because undead(and especially undead rogues) can easily counter your only real way of getting some distance.

Rogues you should never beat with all the control they have-they are the overpowered class in vanilla without any real weaknesses.You can die in stunlock in the blink of an eye at low levels.
if you are to beat them your best bet is to get them out of stealth and hope they are idiots(quite common trait for nerds rolling a class just to"kill stuff")

Warriors are actually easy.Good way to deal with them in duel is to deny them their charge(as cheap as it may be).Stay close enough to avoid charge or throw say a Silence on them to force them in combat -that way you only have to worry about Intercept.
Also bubbles should gimp their rage generation since no damage=no rage.

Against melees in general you may be wise to avoid using Mind Flay in melee range to prevent Pummel/Kick.
Use your Psychic Scream not to deal damage,but to heal.If your enemy trinkets and locks your healing school you can still deal damage with shadow.(And the other way around).May also be wise to throw in Renew and heal early so enemy can waste their interrupt needlessly.(But you need lots of stamina to survive)

As for ferals i don't think you can beat them before getting Silence.They are very easy to fear ,but you'll go oom trying to outdps their healing when they get low.
Also Holy Nova is very useful(probably the only useful thing about this ability)in unstealthing ,so spam rank 1 when you think a stealther is nearby.

I'm no pro,just my two cents.

[sloasdaylight]

Rogues aren't too bad at 60 unless they're smart. Most of them will try to open with a cheapshot -> couple sinister strikes/backstabs into a 5 point kidney. At this point trinket the Kidney if you have it, fear, reapply PW:S, and try to get a SW:P up. If you don't have a trinket you're basically shit out of luck, because after the kidney ends, if they have any sense about them they'll gouge you to keep you immobile, and try to regen some energy. They may vanish if they feel like being dicks and restart the encounter with a fresh CS and then at that point they'll probably go for a 5 point evis. Dwarf priests do well against rogues because stone form means that if you can land a fear, you can get out of crip/wound poison to get some distance and a heal, and if you can predict the rogue's moves right you can negate an attempt to blind/restealth and restart the encounter.

Once you're level 60 with a trinket rogues get easier, unless they use expose armor, at that point it becomes a DPS race you better pray you've got the hp to survive, because they hit like a motherfucking truck, especially as hemo swords.

You should never lose to warriors at least as shadow. You can out range their charge and get them into combat via SW:P, so they either have to blow intercept early in the fight to get to you, or do the walk of death. PW:S does prevent them from gaining rage from damage they deal, which is nice for starving them, but once you start dealing dmg to them they'll build that rage back. Basically either start the fight real close to them, or real far away from them, you don't want to give them any mid range advantage to charge you with. Also Imp Fear means they can't zerker rage out of your second fear instantly, since the cooldown is 4 seconds lower than Zerker, that gives you plenty of time for a nice Mindblast -> mindflay combination to do some damage.

The comment above about not using mindflay/blast in melee range is silly. Even if you get kicked/pummeled, they cannot do it indefinitely, and if they pummel a mindblast, throw a flash heal or some such on yourself. It's not a universal lockout. You can't win a fight against a melee character if you're never casting while they're in melee range. SW:P, despite what everyone seems to mis-remember about it, is not that powerful. It's plenty strong as shit, don't get me wrong, but it's not something you can drop on an equally leveled, and especially equally leveled, character and just twiddle your thumbs while they slowly die kind of thing.

[Melikecookies]

If your shadow school gets locked you cannot get off Scream and a melee will sit on you while your trying to heal.A rogue has more than kick to stop you from casting.

[sloasdaylight]

If your shadow school gets locked you cannot get off Scream and a melee will sit on you while your trying to heal.A rogue has more than kick to stop you from casting.

Scream should be on cooldown anyway. I mean, yes, if your scream is going to come up in less than 6 (or 4, I forget right now) seconds, don't cast, but otherwise, cast; pain will not kill people for you. And yes of course rogues have more than kick to keep you from casting, off the top of my head they have the following tools to keep you from casting against them: Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot, Gouge, Blind, Sap, Kick, Vanish, am I missing anything? Rogues are a control class, that doesn't mean they're unbeatable even if they're Undead. The only way that's the case is if you lay down and let them kill you, or you don't have a trinket equipped.

Cheap Shot: Nothing you can do to prevent this, unless you get the rogue out of stealth -> Hope you resist it.
Kidney Shot: Nothing you can do to prevent this -> Hope you resist it.
Gouge: Keep your face away from the rogue via Mouse camera turning while healing, and you'll force the rogue to try to adapt to you.
Blind: Will likely be used after a fear to close the gap/prevent a mind blast/flay combination, or additionally to allow for the rogue to re-open. If you're a dwarf, stoneform when the rogue starts coming back after a fear. Alternatively you can silence the rogue as well, and this will keep them from being able to blind you for the duration of the silence.
Sap: Nothing you can do except get the rogue out of stealth, same as cheap shot -> Hope they miss.
Vanish: Dotting the rogue will keep them from being able to remain stealthed, but rogues can vanish in between dot ticks to make you drop target and stop your cast.
Garrote: Hope they don't open with this. If they do, you're going against a rogue who will probably expose your armor and it's GG.

If you're going to be doing any PvP at all, you should have martyrdom, and the argument could be made for 2 points in Holy for Healing focus. Martyrdom grants 100% push back protection while casting after being the victim of a crit (Including crits that are absorbed by your shield) in addition to a 20% interrupt resistance, and healing focus is 70% push back resistance against either healing or holy spells, I forgot which, but for our purposes they're the same. Sitting there and not doing anything except wanding or whatever is asking to die to rogues, and giving them a free HK.

[Garfunkel]

As a disc/holy priest, talented for PvE and raiding - though currently at level 50 - my experience is that when it comes to rogues, you might as well give up, if you're alone. Unless the rogue player is a total moron, there's not much you can do except die.

Against warriors, on the other hand, it's quite possible to survive and even triumph. Even if they get a charge off to start things with, your healing should out-perform their damage output - keep shield and renew up, toss in a flash heal when you can, keep the warrior dotted and feared - then toss a mindblast and/or smite when they are running around. It's not flashy but it works even if they pop a potion.

Against druids and shamans, winning (as non-shadow) becomes very difficult as they will get their own heals off and since they out-damage you by a significant margin, it's often a lost cause.

However, perfect counter is to group up as much as possible. Nothing as pleasurable as being a "pocket healer" hidden behind terrain - I've noticed that I can keep up three party members in PvP combat and few Horde gank groups are organized enough to focus their attention on a single character and same probably applies to Alliance as well.

I'm really shit at PvP in any case, so what I wrote above might be worthless

[Armilus]

Warriors don't get rage when an attack is absorbed so get shield up immediately. Inner fire will cause the shield to last a lot longer. After that, the challenge is killing them before you go OOM.

[Hydra9268]

Hi guys!

Recently started playing on this awesome server, and ive never experienced or player vanilla so here im, and been loving it this far . Just got one question on my mind. Im leveling with priest now, and im lvl 35 atm. Always when i get in 1v1 duels against warriors/rogues/feral druids they just wreck me totally, there's nothing i can do besides wanding and dotting. If i fear rogue, it will FOTM since all of them most likely are undeads, warriors just wrecking me with their whirlwind axe and i can't do anything pretty much. Does it get better at any point against melee classes or is it the truth that rogues/warriors were that op back in vanilla?

This is exactly what vanilla WOW was like. Priests are powerful against certain class and horrible against others. That's what Blizzard called balance. Here's a summary of vanilla classes, as I remember them.

- Rogues are powerful because they only wear leather and rely on their stealth so they need to do lots of damage fast. They are the most OP class in vanilla.

- Warriors dish out a lot of damage to make up for the fact that they have no healing abilities beyond bandages.

- Druids are jacks of all trades but most druids in Vanilla went Feral for PVP reasons. A long time ago master druid Ferahgo produced a video of his exploits. You can see how badass feral druids are.

- Mages I'm not sure but I think the term "glass cannon" originated from vanilla as an appropriate way to describe mages. Extremely powerful output, ridiculous low defense. They are the #1 target of Rogues. In vanilla most Mages take frost as it is the build with the most control and defenses. I do remember some mages going with arcane, but in vanilla my understanding was arcane was too mana heavy and didn't have all of the defenses like frost.

- Mind controlling shadow Priests are powerful opponents. I remember at one Southshore / Terran Mill skirmish there was a group of 3 shadow priest. They virtually destroyed like 10+ players of equal level. The only thing that stopped them was a couple Rogues.

- Shamans, like Druids, are jacks of all trades. Before Blizzard got their hands on this class and effectively butchered them for several expansions Shaman were/are the second most powerful class behind Rogues. They have insane damage output as Enhancement. They have incredible damage output as Elemental. As a Restoration healer they are powerful. I remember being the victim of several chain lighting spells in pvp raid battles. To top this all Shamans also have totems that buff not only themselves but everyone in their group. For example Windfury totem gives every melee a 20% chance to hit twice. In a dungeon this is like having another dps.

- Hunters are powerful opponents as long as they stay out of melee range. Some pets, especially rare ones, do a lot of damage. Because a hunter wears leather and relies on range damage they have to do a lot to keep you out of their melee range. Against Warriors and other melee classes a Hunter owns, but against Mages and Priests hunters can be destroyed.

- Depending on the build Warlock is powerful. Demonology Warlocks rely on their pets to effectively tank, spell stun-lock, and other utilities. Affliction Warlocks can DOT you to hell and literally watch as their DOTs eat you from the inside out.

- Paladins like to blow bubbles and dance...

[Melikecookies]

Poster above me has little clue about half the classes he mentiones.

From the rogues being powerful for wearing leather(is it for tanking lol?),to frost mages being favourite rogue target(they have upper hand with Preparation,but otherwise it's far from easy for a rogue to win),to hunters wearing leather(up to 40,yes.Is this for low lvl PvP?)

Mages go arcane for PoM Pyro i don't see what this has to do with mana.Hunters at max range with Viper sting can own a priest without ever allowing him to close the distance if they have something remotely resembling a brain.(unless we talk about dwarves which can remove it)

Just TOO MUCH CRAP to list it all.

No offense,but you sir,have no clue what are you talking about.

[Hydra9268]

@Melikecookies

The first thing you missed in my post was "Here's a summary of vanilla classes, as I remember them" in other words its my opinion based on my personal experience from vanilla 10 years ago.

All around (PVE / PVP) Rogues ARE the most OP class in vanilla. Period.
#2 Shamans.
#3 Warriors
#4 Warlocks
#5 Mages
#6 Priests
#7 Paladins
#8 Hunters
#9 Druids ... because reasons. Go ask any raiding guild from vanilla about Druids. They'll tell you.

A mage is a Rogue's first target, period. If a stun-lock Rogue gets in there they can generally drop a mage fast. If a mage blinks away or uses a trinket there's a chance, but then a Rogue can reenter stealth and reset. The mage only has two options; blink/run/ride away or risk death to heal... most will likely move away fast.

PoM Pyro. That's only one technique. I'm not going to cover every class combination. I was only providing a brief outline of my past experience and what I saw.

I do have a clue because I actually PLAYED vanilla 10 years ago. OP was asking about Priest versus other classes. This is a quick breakdown of each class as it pertains to casters. It has nothing to do with the best class builds.