Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by sloasdaylight » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:45 am

Melikecookies wrote:Poster above me has little clue about half the classes he mentiones.
...
No offense,but you sir,have no clue what are you talking about.


This is rich coming from a guy who literally told someone to not cast when a melee character is in melee range because a spell with a cooldown of 26 or 30 seconds might get locked out and said that you'll "never beat" a rogue.
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by Melikecookies » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:58 pm

Sloasdaylight,

So i say people should avoid getting locked out of their shadow school.
You claim this is silly.
I say that if you want to use Psychic Scream you should avoid getting spell locked.
Yes,"it is wise" to avoid silences on your main damage school.I did not say to avoid Mind Flay completely,just that you have abilities tied to your shadow school that you want to use when possible.Don't you agree?
You agree(I think),put a detailed analysis on the rogue's moves and rebuke me again for pointing some completely valid points in Hydra's post.

As for priests killling rogues LOL.Just lol.
If you get him out of stealth and get the dots rolling on him before he manages to begin the stunlock i agree.Otherwise-no chance.
If a rogue opens on you.

Cheap shot>Kindney Shot.
You are well geared,at full mana and health and with full stacks of Inner Fire?Well,you will survive.
Vanish>Repeat.

You are somehow still alive?Preparation says hi.Vanish and repeat again.By this time Inner Fire should be far gone.
You have PvP trinket?Riiightt.If he is not undead(unlikely) you may have a chance.
Even then a rogue can Blind,use Sprint and run away to eat and drink.You may have fend him off,but that does not mean you killed him.I though priests were killing them ,you say?

If he vanishes after Prep and does choose to leave combat what are you going to do?
No way to pull out of stealth unless you blindly use Psychic Scream and hope the rogue is near enough to be affected by it.
You heal?Leave Shadow Form and a good amount of your mitigation is gone.If i were a rogue i would attack just now and finish you quickly...

I'm not even gonna go and consider Sap working in combat,because i'm not sure which patch it is,but it is sure as hell tipping it even more in rogue's favour.

Hydra

I really did not mean to offend,you are just wrong for many things and that's the truth.If i misunderstood something i apologize,but many of the things you said are incorrect.

Btw any decent mage will Blink out of rogues stuns.There is not"may"-He will.
A rogue can Vanish,yes.Then there is this spell called Blizzard rank 1.It has slow effect and good range when talented and can actually destealth vanishing rogues if you are quick enough.
With sheeps a good mage can reset he fights not too differently from a rogue.

And i agree that rogues are OP.I completly agree,but not because they wear leather,but because of the huge control they have.Leather has nothing to do with it.

As for Arcane there is PoM and that's about it.The only other reason people put points in that tree (for PvP) is Improved Counterspell.
Arcane is just a support tree that lacks main nuke like Fireball and Frostbolt.(Arcane missiles is just...not)
The mana issues you probably are talking about are for raiding arcane mages in TBC.In vanilla Arcane is just lackluster support tree for PoM mages speccing for PvP to two shot someone every few minutes.


Whatever people,do what you want,play how you want.
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by sloasdaylight » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:17 pm

Melikecookies wrote:Sloasdaylight,

So i say people should avoid getting locked out of their shadow school.
You claim this is silly.
I say that if you want to use Psychic Scream you should avoid getting spell locked.
Yes,"it is wise" to avoid silences on your main damage school.I did not say to avoid Mind Flay completely,just that you have abilities tied to your shadow school that you want to use when possible.Don't you agree?
You agree(I think),put a detailed analysis on the rogue's moves and rebuke me again for pointing some completely valid points in Hydra's post.

As for priests killling rogues LOL.Just lol.
If you get him out of stealth and get the dots rolling on him before he manages to begin the stunlock i agree.Otherwise-no chance.
If a rogue opens on you.

Cheap shot>Kindney Shot.
You are well geared,at full mana and health and with full stacks of Inner Fire?Well,you will survive.
Vanish>Repeat.

You are somehow still alive?Preparation says hi.Vanish and repeat again.By this time Inner Fire should be far gone.
You have PvP trinket?Riiightt.If he is not undead(unlikely) you may have a chance.
Even then a rogue can Blind,use Sprint and run away to eat and drink.You may have fend him off,but that does not mean you killed him.I though priests were killing them ,you say?

If he vanishes after Prep and does choose to leave combat what are you going to do?
No way to pull out of stealth unless you blindly use Psychic Scream and hope the rogue is near enough to be affected by it.
You heal?Leave Shadow Form and a good amount of your mitigation is gone.If i were a rogue i would attack just now and finish you quickly...

I'm not even gonna go and consider Sap working in combat,because i'm not sure which patch it is,but it is sure as hell tipping it even more in rogue's favour.


There is so much that is so very wrong with your breakdown of a rogue v. priest encounter, I barely know where to begin. I mean, did you even PvP in vanilla? I would LOVE, ABSOLUTELY LOVE for a rogue to open with a cheapshot -> Kidney shot -> Vanish -> Cheapshot -> Kidney shot combination on me. Absolutely love it. You know why? Because at that point DR has happened on each of those abilities and I'm either immune to them or will sit in them for 1/2 the duration, so GG rogue, hit me with a 5 point KS and I'll sit in it as long as a 2 pt one. Also, a rogue who uses prep at that point to re-open on you AGAIN is terrible, absolutely terrible, because at that point not only are you even MORE into the DR for those abilities, but they've also effectively wasted 10 or so combo points on Kidney shots that would have been better used on expose armor or eviscerates.

Rogues mix control with damage, but you've outlined a rogue trying to stun you to death, which simply put won't work, especially if you have a trinket. The only way a rogue kills a priest doing what you've outlined is if the rogue is in Naxx level gear, and you're in dungeon blues.

Seriously dude, stop giving advice about shadow priest PvP, you don't know what you're talking about. You're talking about this like you're looking at their abilities in a spreadsheet and putting together a pro vs. con list and deciding the outcome based on that and not actual experience.
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by Melikecookies » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:54 pm

Yeah stun diminishing returns in this patch.Yeah...
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by Hydra9268 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:43 pm

Melikecookies wrote:I really did not mean to offend,you are just wrong for many things and that's the truth.If i misunderstood something i apologize,but many of the things you said are incorrect.

Btw any decent mage will Blink out of rogues stuns.There is not"may"-He will.
A rogue can Vanish,yes.Then there is this spell called Blizzard rank 1.It has slow effect and good range when talented and can actually destealth vanishing rogues if you are quick enough.
With sheeps a good mage can reset he fights not too differently from a rogue.

And i agree that rogues are OP.I completly agree,but not because they wear leather,but because of the huge control they have.Leather has nothing to do with it.

As for Arcane there is PoM and that's about it.The only other reason people put points in that tree (for PvP) is Improved Counterspell.
Arcane is just a support tree that lacks main nuke like Fireball and Frostbolt.(Arcane missiles is just...not)
The mana issues you probably are talking about are for raiding arcane mages in TBC.In vanilla Arcane is just lackluster support tree for PoM mages speccing for PvP to two shot someone every few minutes.


I don't understand why someone has to "prove me wrong" if I have experienced vanilla PVP back in the day. Is experience not worth anything? I didn't play every single class during vanilla. I'm only stating what I saw during combat from one class towards another class. I just remember priests, specifically shadow, doing a ton of damage... but were very quickly killed by rogues. On the opposite end I remember Paladins "bubbling" and literally taking "forever" to kill. It would take a swarm of players to take one down. Does all of this mean because I don't know every single class and their mechanics inside and out this invalidates my experience?
DO NOT WANT PRISTINE REALMS!!!
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by sloasdaylight » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:08 pm

Melikecookies wrote:Yeah stun diminishing returns in this patch.Yeah...

Stuns do suffer from DR, and kidney shot also has a cooldown.

Try again.
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by d_nn » Sun May 24, 2015 3:19 pm

Pretty sure none of the above posters ever played rogue or priest on vanilla pvp.

As i stopped playing just when BC came out, all my memories are from vanilla and not the next extensions.

Priest is probably one of the hardest class to face as a rogue, just after druid being the hardest. The reason is simple, in Vanilla rogue are fairly close to having 0 tankyness, sure they can reset fight with their control, go heal and come back, but a priest can very well drop the SF, renew, flash, pop the SF in less than 3 seconde if the rogue decide to do so.

The matchup between rogue and priest decide itself in baiting the kick, if the priest successfully bait the kick (start casting cancel kick in nothing from the rogue) the priest is likely to win as the rogue can't stand the dps. If the rogue successfully land kick, he can more or less get a 10 second window of free dps, which leave no chance to the priest (5 sec kick + 5 sec KS).

Two things tho, combat rogue that drop adrerush will take anything down before u can do anything (again, except druid mostly). The opener against priest is CS>EA or Garrot>EA not CS>KS.
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by Kha » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:46 pm

d_nn wrote:Pretty sure none of the above posters ever played rogue or priest on vanilla pvp.

As i stopped playing just when BC came out, all my memories are from vanilla and not the next extensions.

Priest is probably one of the hardest class to face as a rogue, just after druid being the hardest.


not even close. hardest match is hunter, period. can kill you dressed in blues and you in full bwl gear without his pet...
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by Siusek » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:29 pm

Guys even tho some bad temper is around I have learned a lot from this tread. I used to roll SP back on vanilla for short time before tbc came up and I must say feral and rogues were my weakness.

After reading all of this I see some of you disagree and think that priest should almost always own rogue (just as they do it with warriors). A lot was said but could some of you guys please give me a short manual of how to counter a rogue? Just 2-3 situations with quick explanation of how to kick their asses? Honestly rogues still gives me hard times (lvl 34 at this point) and I would love to learn how to beat them and master 1v1 against them.

Any guide/description of few most common 1v1 encounters of SP vs Rogue would be very appreciated.


Btw my list of hard to kill classes from SP point of view, as I remember them from vanilla (from hardest to free HK). Just if anybody cares:

    - Rogue
    - Feral Druid
    - Shadow Priest
    - Warlock
    - Shaman
    - Mage
    - Hunter
    - Paladin
    - Warrior
Sheep EX Machina!
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Re: Dealing in PvP with melee classes.

by djiron » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:17 pm

dont stay in shadowform all the time
let him kick your mindflay so you can try to heal yourself
watch his energy, if its near zero he cant interupt you
keep shadowword pain, shield and inner fire up
if you want to tryhard use antivenom (it doesnt cost much) to gain some extra distance after fear
pray for blackout procs
use fade to discourage him from attacking you

extra tip:
type /who -> more than 6k people online? -> jump around as much as possible, he will miss half his attacks
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