Best Holy Talent Spec

[Ayag]

I was not aware of that and I am not sure if that's the case.
WIll check it out.

But even if it's not Blizzlike that doesn't really changed what we were discussing about :p

[Ayag]

Mallux we just did some tries and it appears to not be correct, ie Chain Healing coefficients are properply applied and there is no double or triple dipping.

I assume the smart healing to be true though seeing how the meters are.

[mallux]

Hm. I thought it was accepted that the scaling was screwy:
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=31325&p=243741#p243741
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27488&p=221674#p219971
Although the above posts don't seem to agree...

[Ayag]

Sorry I forgot to say that I don't play on Nostalrius (did mention it somewhere but obviously you might not have read all my posts :p). I play on VG and it appears to be scaling the proper way.

[mallux]

Looks like I derailed the thread a bit. To stay on topic, I currently raid with http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxRhsV0oZdxtcc0Vx. However, I am working on casting PoH/Holy Nova more frequently based on suggestions in this tread. I might end up switching to http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxRhsV0oZbLtcfMVh or http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxRhsV0oZbLtcf0Vx

[Jeniwyn]

Looks like I derailed the thread a bit. To stay on topic, I currently raid with http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxRhsV0oZdxtcc0Vx. However, I am working on casting PoH/Holy Nova more frequently based on suggestions in this tread. I might end up switching to http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxRhsV0oZbLtcfMVh or http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxRhsV0oZbLtcf0Vx

In general I'd cut points in Spiritual Guidance (SG) before I'd cut points in Spiritual Healing (SH). At least at current gearlevels. I would also take Improved Prayer of Healing over Spiritual Guidance. Sure, in 1 min fights cheaper spells might be irrelevant, but when it matters IPoH will often end up significantly ahead.

I tend to pick talents that are at their best when things get rough. Thats the reason I also have SoR. The alternatives would be 1% crit, 2% less magic damage or 4% reduced threat. I feel that ~6 Flash Heals and a renew/shield if I die is in general better in bad situations than the small gain from any of the alternatives. I don't think I'd pick SoR in a build that puts 21 points in Disc for Spirit Buff though.

Lets compare SH and SG. SH (per point) is about equal to 10 +healing for Heal 1 and 2 up to about 30 for the higher ranks of Greater Heal. About 40 for Flash Heal maxrank and from around 20 (Rank 1) up to about 70 (max rank) for Prayer of Healing.

Even if you are at 400 spirit that only makes SG give you 20 healing per point and in most fights SH should beat that. The only time that isn't true is fights where Lesser Heal and Heal represent the vast majority of spells cast. And the thing is, in fights where SG is better the difference is almost always small, when SH is better the difference is frequently huge. It also has the biggest impact when you need extra healing the most i.e when you are casting your bigger spells. SH has many things going for it. It's just better.

[Ayag]

I agree with Jenywin that you should always favor Spiritual Healing over Spiritual Guidance.
SG is very useful when using higher ranks FH or GH, not using the latter I find it most useful for Flash Healing the raid (mostly trash).
If you want the Spirit of Redemption you could go 4/5 SG and 1 SoR instead of 5/5 SG.

I have raided with and without Holy Nova and I can't find a situation where HN is useful hence I have stopped speccing HN.

[mallux]

I spec into both Holy Nova and SG over SH as a compromise. I use Holy Nova for AoE farming DME and SG helps a bit when soloing.

While I agree that SH is, point for point, better, it's benefit over SG (+15 healing) is insignificant at current gear levels (800-900 +healing).

[varth]

Uh holy Nova is incredible for vael, good for us start to pop the eyes, DM e farming

[Imbaslap]

personally, I enjoy the MS build on fights like Nef and Chromag (even chain pulling trash). having 10.1k mana without distilled is such a nice pillow to have.
my healing doesn't really change without SH specced. my FH's lose maybe 60 healing on avg for r5. I still touch over 1,000 r5 FH without SH specced.

I don't know, but personally I like the mana scaling better over some fluff healing added to an already strong heal.

also save on mana pots too

MS gives benefits outside of just healing power which I like a lot. (cleansing duration, healing duration etc.)
MS might become more appealing when fights become longer and you start regretting having that 60 more healing to your spells over missing out on 1100 free mana.

holy nova is very useful. while moving, you can use it to instant heal yourself and party members. it is by far the only instant cast party heal if you're grouped up. even for soloing, I have seen max rank HN crits for 1000 before. it is pretty huge on the healing part. (heal while being mobile is nice to have)

for instance, if shazzrah teleports on top of you. do you just stand there and eat the arcane explosions? risk a counterspell during a channel? running away from shazzrah and using holy nova keeps you alive AND prevents a CS lockout on holy spells.
you don't see many fights for HN, but having it can be huge when you're running out of stuff. (Naxx and AQ will see more use for it)
plus you can solo the plants in DM:E with it too.