warlock defending bases is useless, mage / rogue are better and even hunters have same defense potencial or better since they can shadowmeld / pet meld.
lol @ that guy saying you can't win prem vs prem with warlocks on your side, it's actually the other way arround.
i'd take 2 warlocks into wsg without any problems, wouldn't even think twice about it.
Warlocks are strongest caster in game and they make the majority of caster pressure in terms of dmg, while also bringing undispensable tools like CoT (which is a mandatory dispel and waste of GCD for enemy team) a reliable silence on a pet and a certain offensive / defensive dispel ability. Mages don't get to cast much, and most of your gcd will be used towards dispelling tongues from important targets, using r1fb / blizz / cone / nova to peel healers or CC targets (mage alone can block off bridge in AB for example, no other class can offer that much control), while doing the ocasional burst when a target is called for kill.
There are many things that can vary and obviously this is not all prem v prem is all about.
But point is that warlocks offer too much not to take them, and the idea you can just replace their job with more mages is incredibly retarded, even more is actually saying that this is based on being ALLIANCE, which is clearly the superior faction for warlock due to the fact you don't play vs paladins and paladins compensate for most mistakes you make in terms of positioning which is key to playing warlock, freedom / sacrifice / bop etc.
Alliance Warlock in PvP
37 posts
• Page 4 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Re: Alliance Warlock in PvP
lookin like a school shooter when i walk into these halls
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Darkwinjax
- Stone Guard
Re: Alliance Warlock in PvP
So you guys are saying i can be a pvp god without rerolling orc? Brb.
- Summer
- Grunt
Re: Alliance Warlock in PvP
To summarise:
Solo/WPvP/PuG BGs. Go horde.
Premade / Small group pvp: Doesnt matter. In my experience you're never fearing priests. Shamans and Paladins are going to be your CC targets as they are both pretty vulnerable to fear. Priests sit in sheep.
Solo/WPvP/PuG BGs. Go horde.
Premade / Small group pvp: Doesnt matter. In my experience you're never fearing priests. Shamans and Paladins are going to be your CC targets as they are both pretty vulnerable to fear. Priests sit in sheep.
- Acrimony
- Grunt
Re: Alliance Warlock in PvP
Sure, I'll chime in a month late.
Towards AQ40/naxx, if you get geared, warlock damage becomes so high that fear becomes a waste of a GCD in almost every situation.
Not having WOTF just puts you at a moderate disadvantage in a few niche situations.
Towards AQ40/naxx, if you get geared, warlock damage becomes so high that fear becomes a waste of a GCD in almost every situation.
Not having WOTF just puts you at a moderate disadvantage in a few niche situations.
-
Setup
- Stone Guard
Re: Alliance Warlock in PvP
Diogenes, if you're playing defense but won't use your cooldowns when it's the difference between a successful defense and a fail, then you're making a good case for why you shouldn't be a defender. And frankly, I'm not convinced you can only squeeze in a single Fear cast either when defending. Not unless you have bad reaction time.
Trading DoTs vs Cleanse is a possibility for Paladins, sure, but I'm still not convinced he is mitigating damage better than he would if he were just casting heals. A Shaman definitely tops out if he casts Chain Heals, so I don't think this is an Alliance advantage vs locks.
The occasional offensive dispel with a Felhunter is a possibility, sure. You can dispel a FAP or Restorative Potion with it if you want, but the offensive uses are mostly niche. Defensive dispels don't have the same problem because your Felhunter shouldn't be GCDing so when someone slaps on a dangerous debuff, you instantly purge it before they can follow it up. Offensive dispels have the problem because you can apply trash buffs before the combat begins. Ergo, offensive dispels are a smaller source of Warlock utility than defensive dispels, so a Horde contributes more to a team with Devour Magic. If you really want to play dispeller as a Warlock, you will need a 5piece Felheart or Nemesis (for +100/120 pet resists) and run a Doomguard for their Dispel (which is a gcd), but Enslave is quite unreliable and Blizzard nerfed Soul Link so that you can no longer use it with anything other than the 4 summoned pets. Gnomish Mind Control Cap SLs made Blizzard freak out.
Whatever is the cause of the Grounding Totem delay, the result is clearly not blizzlike and needs to be fixed. I am fairly certain that given GT's current delay there is an actual delay built into the totem and not just server lag. Destroying tremor totems is not easier because it's just a GCD to drop them and with the right positioning you will need to run through the enemy's firing line to get enough range to kill the totem. At that point you are quite possibly already dead. BoP and BoF are both cooldowns and whoever you use it on is virtually guaranteed to be in a bad position.
As for WotF, right now half the Horde is playing Undead. Every class that can be Undead other than the Warrior is around 80% or more Undead. The Warrior is around 20% Undead. So this is no exaggeration when we say that you will be up against WotF. Also Bloodfury is lousy for Rogues. That's a 25% boost to base AP. Rogues get the bulk of their AP in flat AP gear, not strength and agi. The real reason to go Orc is for Hardiness to better gank Paladins. But even Rogues are around 80% Undead. At the end of the day, there's no getting around it: WotF is too strong.
Another way to counter Priests and Paladins as Horde by the way is to have a pet Succubus Seduce them. (5piece nemesis and buffs preferred so they aren't glass.) Fear Ward and trinket do nothing against seduce. WotF and Tremor Totem does though, which is why Alliance will almost never use a Succubus in PvP.
Darkwinjax, Mages can compete with Warlocks for damage no problem. CoT is the one special utility a Warlock contributes to Alliance which it contributes just as well to Horde. CoT can also get dispelled by a Mage or side-stepped by using channels and instant casts. It is a severe nuisance, yes, but not as much as actual crowd control would be. Saying the Paladins compensate for bad Warlock positioning with BoP/BoF is incredibly retarded because you are still in a bad position when you receive it against a faction that has a ton of offensive dispels (Priest/Shaman/Felhunter). It gets wiped instantly against decent players.
My point here is that the Warlock is fundamentally crippled on the Alliance side. You can describe him as a multitool if you like but on the Alliance his tools are drastically reduced compared to the Horde. We can make a quick recap of the issues:
Fear:
At the end of the day, you're much more useful on the Horde than on the Alliance. On the Alliance, I don't see the Warlock contributing enough to be worth a PvP slot on a serious competitive level.
Trading DoTs vs Cleanse is a possibility for Paladins, sure, but I'm still not convinced he is mitigating damage better than he would if he were just casting heals. A Shaman definitely tops out if he casts Chain Heals, so I don't think this is an Alliance advantage vs locks.
The occasional offensive dispel with a Felhunter is a possibility, sure. You can dispel a FAP or Restorative Potion with it if you want, but the offensive uses are mostly niche. Defensive dispels don't have the same problem because your Felhunter shouldn't be GCDing so when someone slaps on a dangerous debuff, you instantly purge it before they can follow it up. Offensive dispels have the problem because you can apply trash buffs before the combat begins. Ergo, offensive dispels are a smaller source of Warlock utility than defensive dispels, so a Horde contributes more to a team with Devour Magic. If you really want to play dispeller as a Warlock, you will need a 5piece Felheart or Nemesis (for +100/120 pet resists) and run a Doomguard for their Dispel (which is a gcd), but Enslave is quite unreliable and Blizzard nerfed Soul Link so that you can no longer use it with anything other than the 4 summoned pets. Gnomish Mind Control Cap SLs made Blizzard freak out.
Whatever is the cause of the Grounding Totem delay, the result is clearly not blizzlike and needs to be fixed. I am fairly certain that given GT's current delay there is an actual delay built into the totem and not just server lag. Destroying tremor totems is not easier because it's just a GCD to drop them and with the right positioning you will need to run through the enemy's firing line to get enough range to kill the totem. At that point you are quite possibly already dead. BoP and BoF are both cooldowns and whoever you use it on is virtually guaranteed to be in a bad position.
As for WotF, right now half the Horde is playing Undead. Every class that can be Undead other than the Warrior is around 80% or more Undead. The Warrior is around 20% Undead. So this is no exaggeration when we say that you will be up against WotF. Also Bloodfury is lousy for Rogues. That's a 25% boost to base AP. Rogues get the bulk of their AP in flat AP gear, not strength and agi. The real reason to go Orc is for Hardiness to better gank Paladins. But even Rogues are around 80% Undead. At the end of the day, there's no getting around it: WotF is too strong.
Another way to counter Priests and Paladins as Horde by the way is to have a pet Succubus Seduce them. (5piece nemesis and buffs preferred so they aren't glass.) Fear Ward and trinket do nothing against seduce. WotF and Tremor Totem does though, which is why Alliance will almost never use a Succubus in PvP.
Darkwinjax, Mages can compete with Warlocks for damage no problem. CoT is the one special utility a Warlock contributes to Alliance which it contributes just as well to Horde. CoT can also get dispelled by a Mage or side-stepped by using channels and instant casts. It is a severe nuisance, yes, but not as much as actual crowd control would be. Saying the Paladins compensate for bad Warlock positioning with BoP/BoF is incredibly retarded because you are still in a bad position when you receive it against a faction that has a ton of offensive dispels (Priest/Shaman/Felhunter). It gets wiped instantly against decent players.
My point here is that the Warlock is fundamentally crippled on the Alliance side. You can describe him as a multitool if you like but on the Alliance his tools are drastically reduced compared to the Horde. We can make a quick recap of the issues:
Fear:
- Alliance: Paladin Cleanse. Fear Ward (which can get removed by purges and casting Fear twice).
Horde: Tremor Totem. Will of the Forsaken.
Advantage Horde Playing a Warlock as Alliance means you can't Fear.
- Alliance: Paladin Cleanse.
Horde: Tremor Totem. Will of the Forsaken.
Advantage Horde Succubus is simply not a PvP pet for the Alliance.
- Alliance: Better defensive dispels.
Horde: Better offensive dispels.
Advantage Horde because the Felhunter contributes more as a defensive dispeller and even as an offensive dispeller Paladins provide more in-combat buffs that need instant removal.
- Alliance: Perception or Escape Artist.
Horde: Cannibalize+WotF or Hardiness+Command.
Advantage Horde because most slows are spammable and Perception requires you to activate it while the Rogue is near but before he has attacked you to do anything. It also doesn't work against Vanish. Horde racials are far more useful to Warlocks.
At the end of the day, you're much more useful on the Horde than on the Alliance. On the Alliance, I don't see the Warlock contributing enough to be worth a PvP slot on a serious competitive level.
Last edited by Aethelwulf on Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:54 pm, edited 8 times in total.
- Aethelwulf
- Senior Sergeant
Re: Alliance Warlock in PvP
Orc 25% stun resist, passive, is OP beyond belief. So many classes use stuns, and even BM hunters have one for their 31 point talent, yet can be made useless by PASSIVE Orc racial. Even 5% chance to resist stun I would expect to be a 5 point talent. THEN they get damage increase ability on top? Crazy.
Blizzard Horde bias confirmed.
Blizzard Horde bias confirmed.
- Novanthar
- Grunt
Re: Alliance Warlock in PvP
[/quote][/quote]Numi wrote:
I still argue Alliance is the best faction for PvP, because of paladins.
Yeah dude keep queuing up as a ret pala so we can keep losing every battleground because of retarded pallys trying to get a single kill gj
- InternetExploder
- Tester
37 posts
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