general pvp advice and thoughts

[Cleo]

Hi, new Warlock here. Currently leveling but looking to get into both bgs and tons of wpvp once I cap.

Now I've been toying with different builds and most things I've read said to just play SM/Ruin. But I'm curious on how a SL build might fare? http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#IZbxcuRxRtZVxMtM or a DS build like http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#IV0 ... hoZVx0tMLz (open to to thoughts since I'd like to understand what any of the problems are.)

I'm also curious on the spell stone and the fire stone we make with soul shards, how are they? they useful at all? Does the fire one provide enough benefit to not only be worth talenting (as you see above) or is it not worth it at all?

My last question is on pets if I was playing the SL build, I'd obv have a pet out mostly. Which? and why? Which does the most damage? I read the suc. does and am curious if its worth talenting into improving her output or am I just plain wrong?

Thanks!

[sownu]

If you are new (and based on what you wrote you are), try Soul link spec first. There are two soul link specs, nightfall/soul link and imp corr/soul link/shadowburn. One will dot and drain, while other will dot and try to nuke. Not much damage but easy to play, and very strong even if you roll face on keyboard.

If you know how to position and how to fight, go SM/Ruin, it has way more damage and can kill with dots, or burst people down, however its very easy to die without cooldowns or when unprepared.

Google exact talent point placements.

Choice is only between sl and sm/ruin. DS is no option, because you need pets,

About pets, and its same for all specs - generally you want to run around with felhunter, and have spell lock and devour magic macroed, so you can dispell enemy or yourself and use silence. Voidwalker is used when you know you will fight against physical dps or if you cant control other pets (vw sacrifice is very strong), succubus is used when you either need additional cc - seduce someone, fear someone else or you want to burst someone down, seduce > shadowbolt > seduce > shadowbolt combo is hilarious and very effective in 1v1.

Also, warlocks are somewhat gear dependent. You wont do much damage and will die miserably until you have stacked up some hp and + shadow damage, so until you get geared, focus on utility (fears, silence, curse of tongues/exhaustion) and position more than doing damage.

[Lifealert]

Sm ruin is the definitive warlock experience because of ruin (big crits), pve viability (no respec every weekend), and abilities such as curse of exhaustion. Look at the talents themseves and you get the best of all worlds : increased range on destruction and affliction abilities, afflic talents, as well as decreased cast times, shadowburn, ruin.

I haven't played sl yet but i've gotten mixed feelings from others. One person I talked to said it was boring, despite being able to tank warriors and rogues. He also expressed that damage was limited. Another person really liked it, but he hasn't tried sm ruin. If you go soul link you have to give up something. You give up increased range on one tree regardless. You either go sl nightfall or sl shadowburn. As for a pet you will use felhunter as alliance almost all the time. 60 resist across all resistances is no joke, but will be obsolete when people get aq gear. Sl will be better when everyone has ridiculously high spellpower in naxx gear.

Spellstone is underrated. Use it for any caster fight. I've never used a firestone and I say don't bother.

[Numi]

I haven't played sl yet but i've gotten mixed feelings from others. One person I talked to said it was boring, despite being able to tank warriors and rogues. He also expressed that damage was limited.

If you go soul link you have to give up something. You give up increased range on one tree regardless. You either go sl nightfall or sl shadowburn.

I've played a fair bit as SL / SL, it's not the one shot wonder that is SM / Ruin, but it leaves you much better of in a pug, because you don't rely on paladins / peelers to save you. It's capable of producing decent damage, but mainly through dots rather than shadow bolts. The spec is much more about control than anything else, throwing fears, curses and being in the thick of it rather than being on the edge trying to snipe people.

It's a personal preference, there's groups that will be happy to bring you no matter what spec, respeccs are relatively cheap, try them both out and you'll find what fits you the best!

Ofc, SM / Ruin is PvE viable, so if you plan to PvE that'll save you tons of respeccs.

[Cleo]

Do you think you could supply a common SL/SB for me to follow? little shaky on a few talents.

Also thanks again for all the replies.

[Lifealert]

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#IA0bVRbZbxhkgxot

Drain tank spec. This is the spec I'd do, but someone might have a better one.

[Drain]

Warlock has 4 decent builds in Classic, and none use Dark Pact or Conflag. If you slot either of these in Classic, you're doing it wrong.

Soul Link: Strictly PvP. Great in BGs... but pretty much shit for anything else because it lacks Ruin. It can farm well with DS but then you waste your investment in Master Demo/Soul Link. 20/31/0 or x/31/11

SM/DS: This build is useful mainly for leveling/farming/grinding until you respec out of it for endgame. Lacking Ruin isn't much of a concern solo vs mobs that you can just kill with dots. 30/21/0

SM/Ruin: Strictly PvE and favored by raiders. Top dps build, but basically lacks any kind of survival, and doesn't farm well either because it lacks DS. But Nightfall+SM+Ruin is the winner on dps. 30/0/21

DS/Ruin: This is a hybrid build, which combines some of the bests of both worlds from the last 2 builds. It sacrifices Nightfall though, which hurts top dps, and requires you to eat your pet 24 7. x/21/21

It should be worth mentioning though that Alliance has survival MUCH easier in BGs than the Horde. This means Soul Link isn't really necessary as Alliance, and the other builds are less suicidal.

[sownu]

SM/Ruin: Strictly PvE and favored by raiders. Top dps build, but basically lacks any kind of survival, and doesn't farm well either because it lacks DS. But Nightfall+SM+Ruin is the winner on dps. 30/0/21

DS/Ruin: This is a hybrid build, which combines some of the bests of both worlds from the last 2 builds. It sacrifices Nightfall though, which hurts top dps, and requires you to eat your pet 24 7. x/21/21

Bit wrong there, DS/Ruin is highest DPS spec for PvE, for single target at least, and SM/Ruin can farm efficiently as well, because of siphon life.

DS/Ruin is one favoured by raiders, SM/Ruin is favoured by those who like to PvE and PvP with same spec.

[Darkwinjax]

SM/Ruin: Strictly PvE and favored by raiders. Top dps build, but basically lacks any kind of survival, and doesn't farm well either because it lacks DS. But Nightfall+SM+Ruin is the winner on dps. 30/0/21

DS/Ruin: This is a hybrid build, which combines some of the bests of both worlds from the last 2 builds. It sacrifices Nightfall though, which hurts top dps, and requires you to eat your pet 24 7. x/21/21

Bit wrong there, DS/Ruin is highest DPS spec for PvE, for single target at least, and SM/Ruin can farm efficiently as well, because of siphon life.

DS/Ruin is one favoured by raiders, SM/Ruin is favoured by those who like to PvE and PvP with same spec.

DS / ruin is indeed superior to SM / ruin, specially since the Shadow Mastery is not working correctly and the overall thrash dps of SM / ruin is lower than DS / ruin.

With lucky nightfall procs you can still do more dmg than DS / ruin on some boss fights. Completly terrible for competitive PvP but so is every spec that doesn't have grim reach 2/2.

And i'd say that even conflag build is better than SL for PvP btw.

[Ravni]

Spellstone is probably the most underused warlock spell - especially as a new undergeared lock you should use it all the time. Just remember it clears ALL friendly buffs too, so don't use it right away with full buffs at the start of a battleground. Aside from the shard cost there is no downside to having an active-use offhand equipped and then switch in your passive with a keybind/macro after use or when you think you won't need it. Medicine pouch & skull of impending doom are the same: these are some of the best pvp items in the game, they're basically like a really good trinket that you can swap while in combat after using.

Succubus is okay for solo/ganking if you are horde, but still use felhunter for anything serious. Dispel magic is the best pvp ability in the game, and even though devour is a lot weaker version it's still amazing, esp on a pet that can dispel CC off you. Make sure to get a mod like detox, setup dispel priorities (i.e. devour sheeped priest/pallys first!), and bind it to something you can hit very quickly. Spell lock is only slightly weaker than improved counterspell, which is to say also amazing, and the blanket silence on it is really strong once you get a feel for using it proactively like when a druid shifts out to NS heal. Sometimes you can even devour the NS buff after silence if you get lucky! Paranoia is a nice bonus, esp if you have a hunter engineer in group (stacks with track hidden & catseye for +88 passive stealth detection). Felhunter is really survivable too, most people don't even bother trying to kill it as it can't be dotted up or two-shot with a scorch+fireblast like a succubus can.

Soul Link is good for 1v1/dueling esp if you are really undergeared but it lacks range/burst/utility for organized groups. Conflag builds are fun, esp 19/0/32 nightfall conflag is pretty viable imo, but I'd still recommend working on getting good with SM Ruin right from the start. Curse of exhaustion really changes the way you play in a lot of situations both 1v1 & group. 36 yard instant-cast 30% snare, lasting 12 seconds, with no cooldown, costing a negligible 100 mana, and can also be amped to 50% once every 3 minutes. It's also very hard to remove: priests & shaman can't do anything to it, pallys can only blessing of freedom it from one person on cooldown, druids are off hiding with the flag, and mages never decurse Very strong ability.