Alliance Warlock in PvP

[Numi]

orc is definitely the stronger race (stun resist is soooooooooo strong) although cannibalism and wotf are noteworthy.

this !

just don't play alliance, you'll suffer from noobs with nearly gamebreaking racial. It's like playing a rogue horde side: pure masochism.

I still argue Alliance is the best faction for PvP, because of paladins.

[Wolfrig]

But shamans can simply purge BoF and BoP, BoP has a hefty CD and an alliance lock would be lucky to both get it and not have it purged the next second.

[Numi]

But shamans can simply purge BoF and BoP, BoP has a hefty CD and an alliance lock would be lucky to both get it and not have it purged the next second.

This argument will never end, it all comes down to how Vanilla PVP plays, with the focus fire and the focus on disruption.

The single deciding moment is the engage, if you can pick someone of in the start you win the game, that's generally it. Now imagine you have the potential to stop all physical damage for even a single global, that's still really good.

Not to mention your paladins can't be picked of like a shaman can, leaving you with more useful healers that have to be babysat a lot less.

[Acrimony]

Tbh warlock life:

http://i.imgur.com/EvHBU42.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Cl4BmV6.jpg

[Aethelwulf]

This argument will never end, it all comes down to how Vanilla PVP plays, with the focus fire and the focus on disruption.

No, the argument ends quite easily in a higher skill PvP bracket. BoP/BoF = instapurge. They won't let you have it so long as they have a single guy capable of removing it. Now in low skill PvP brackets you might get away with carrying one of those blessings for quite a while. And then there's the issue that a reason to play Alliance is not necessarily a reason to play a Warlock on Alliance. You play an Alliance Warlock, and you just can't compete well at the higher tiers. You signed away your disables by playing Alliance against Tremor Totems and WotFs in addition to the usual PvP trinkets. This makes you a ranged DPS class without CCs, mobility, or heals. They'd rather have a Mage or Hunter in your place.

Now imagine you have the potential to stop all physical damage for even a single global, that's still really good.

It's slightly useful. More useful if you can shut down the enemy's dispellers or cast it while they're out of range, but the utility is noticeably curtailed.

Not to mention your paladins can't be picked of like a shaman can, leaving you with more useful healers that have to be babysat a lot less.

If the Shaman is playing healer, he's probably too far in the back to be at risk of focus fire anyway. If he's in the fight, he's probably tossing Lightning Bolts and Chain Lightning to make your group miserable. Or he can go 2H build and run in, sure. If the Paladin wants to enter the fight, he has to walk into melee. And if he's in the back, he's tossing single target heals while the Shaman tosses Chain Heal and can provide a totem here and there to stop Fears and ground the occasional spell.

[diogenes]

BoP/BoF = instapurge. They won't let you have it so long as they have a single guy capable of removing it. . . . . This makes you a ranged DPS class without CCs, mobility, or heals. They'd rather have a Mage or Hunter in your place.

I think is rather hillarious that you point out the purge ability of shamans without pointing out the cleanse ability of paladins. I mean, if we took your logic then no one would play mages on horde side because paladins can cleanse polymorph (making them a ranged class without a cc) where shamans can't dispel team members. Its not like your fear never gets dispelled by a paladin, and WHY THE FUCK DO YOU GUYS ALWAYS IGNORE FEAR WARD?

Like seriously, when you actually look at the group pvp aspect, its not a matter of "should I play alliance or horde" but rather "which race of my preferred faction should I play." As horde your dots are much more likely to be dispelled, as alliance you're much more likely to be saved by a bop. There are advantages and disadvantages of each faction that are EXTREMELY difficult to quantify, and that is what makes it an interesting choice.

[Winstons]

Tbh warlock life:

http://i.imgur.com/EvHBU42.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Cl4BmV6.jpg

Both of these are brilliant, haha.

[Aethelwulf]

I think is rather hillarious that you point out the purge ability of shamans without pointing out the cleanse ability of paladins. I mean, if we took your logic then no one would play mages on horde side because paladins can cleanse polymorph (making them a ranged class without a cc) where shamans can't dispel team members. Its not like your fear never gets dispelled by a paladin,

The trouble with dispelling CCs is that you can't dispel it if you're the one who is CC'd. To be fair, both Priests and Paladins can trinket out, but that's their only option and it has a 5min CD. Undead Priests can WotF too though.

and WHY THE FUCK DO YOU GUYS ALWAYS IGNORE FEAR WARD?

Because no one cares. Not only is it dispellable (and the Horde is good at that) but it prevents the Fear completely so it doesn't even trigger diminishing returns. A Warlock's Fear doesn't even have a CD, so you Fear twice and wasted 1.5 seconds and some mana.

Like seriously, when you actually look at the group pvp aspect, its not a matter of "should I play alliance or horde" but rather "which race of my preferred faction should I play." As horde your dots are much more likely to be dispelled, as alliance you're much more likely to be saved by a bop. There are advantages and disadvantages of each faction that are EXTREMELY difficult to quantify, and that is what makes it an interesting choice.

No, it is definitely a matter of Alliance vs Horde for Warlocks. Losing out on some DoT duration doesn't compare.

[diogenes]

The trouble with dispelling CCs is that you can't dispel it if you're the one who is CC'd. To be fair, both Priests and Paladins can trinket out, but that's a 5min CD.

You've got to be joking, if a shaman is cc'd he can't purge, i'm not sure what your point is here.

Because no one cares. Not only is it dispellable (and the Horde is good at that) but it prevents the Fear completely so it doesn't even trigger diminishing returns. A Warlock's Fear doesn't even have a CD, so you Fear twice and wasted 1.5 seconds and some mana.

You're serious? a fear ward on an fc in wsg, or even a random healer in any pvp situation? Its not like shamans can instantly purge every single player removing all their buffs before the lock(s) can cast fear...

Further, since we're supposedly talking about "skilled" play, most of the time you have exactly one chance to fear a target, who care's if it doesn't activate diminishing returns, because they're never feared a second or a third time because they're now out of range. If you think fear being resisted is a big deal (which it is) then its every bit as damning when the target is immune because of fear ward.

No, it is definitely a matter of Alliance vs Horde for Warlocks. Losing out on some DoT duration doesn't compare.

I honestly don't even know what to say to this. If you think there isnt a difference in "some dot duration" in a teamfight doesn't matter, next time just have your dispels not dispel dots. We'll see how well that works.

Really, like you have made some really good points throughout this thread on why horde is (supposedly) the superior race, but when actually faced with real strengths of alliance (and weaknesses of horde) you just toss them aside as if it "doesn't matter." Give me a break. BoP IS a big deal. BoF IS a big deal, not just for locks, but many classes.

And honestly, you're completely biased if you think one side is infinitely more powerful than the other.

[Aethelwulf]

Don't put words in my mouth to make your position seem more reasonable. I didn't say Horde is infinitely more powerful, just that they are far better tailored to shutting down Warlocks than the Alliance. I didn't say losing out on part of your DoT damage is negligible, I said it's much better than losing out on all your CCs. If you want to be Alliance RDPS, you can go play Mage or Hunter instead, and you would be more capable than a Warlock. That's the problem Alliance Warlocks face.

Fear Ward is hardly a counter to Fear either. Sure, it might buy 1.5 seconds of time if it isn't purged and it's worth putting up just for that, but does it compare to what the Horde can do? Not at all.

You can't CC a Shaman as easily as a Paladin or Priest either. Shamans have Grounding and Tremor Totem in addition to their trinket which can break stuns, snares, and roots plus they have Earth Shock to interrupt casts and lock the school for another 2 seconds. The abilities are barely cooldowns. And my point is that cleanse doesn't guarantee you can counter CCs because the same CCs can also counter you unless you bubble. It's certainly good to have cleanse though.