Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Presence of Sight...

[rant]

so without doing anything, mages are 1/2 way to vanilla hit cap. 6% from talents, 2% from ZG head/leg enchant....

what do locks get? 10 stam.... really? 10 stam?

yet another reason mages should have ZERO PRIORITY on all hit gear if there is a warlock in the raid, INCLUDING TEAR

[/rant]

Eh, it depends on what you do. When it comes to PvP, 10 stamina is easily better than 1% spell hit.

Hit isn't some magical stat. It's nice to not get resists but 1% crit is straight up better than 1% Hit in almost every circumstance. (It's worse if you have Ony + Songflower + DM buff)

That said, Mage enchant is straight up better.

those of us who are sitting on almost 20% self buffed crit value hit more.

You also have to consider that every time you (and your other warlocks) crit, it increases everyone's DPS. So while hit may at times be marginally better (and there is almost no scenario where hit is vastly better than crit), crit still is an overall increase in your raid damage even if it's a slight decrease in your personal dps. That decrease in your personal dps would be made up in everyone doing the same gearing style though, so while a spreadsheet might tell you something is worse, it might actually be a net overall raid damage increase.

Botmaster5 wrote:those of us who are sitting on almost 20% self buffed crit value hit more.

Are you sure about that?

Some quick napkin math:

Assumptions:
You use on average 3 of the charges of the shadowbolt debuff (the more you use of a proc, the more damage crit gives you, but for now, 3 is a good estimate).

You have 20% crit chance.
You have 83% chance to hit. (0% extra hit, the more hit we add, the less damage it gives per % hit).

Result:
1% added crit chance gives you on average a 1,28% DPS increase.
1% added hit gives you on average a 1,22% DPS increase.

Conculsion:
So crit is still your strongest stat, while yes, hit is pretty close, keep in mind that we're only using 3 of the 4 charges per crit, if you have warlocks with lower crit chance than you, crit is only ever going to increase raid DPS more.

Cousy wrote:crit still is an overall increase in your raid damage.

I might be out of the loop on how crit chance works in vanilla, isn't it supposed to be a chance on every successful hit? So increasing hit still increases chance to crit?

Cousy wrote:so while a spreadsheet might tell you something is worse, it might actually be a net overall raid damage increase.

You are just flat out wrong, and here is the math.

Damaging spell casts work on a 2 roll system
First roll - hit or miss/resist
Second roll - does the spell crit

Source:

Info on crit and hit chances | 2006-08-25 09:54 | Aeus
The way WoW calculates crit rate is over ALL attacks. Crit rate is not based on hits only. In other words, if you have a 5% crit rate, that 5% chance includes misses.

A 1% increase in your crit chance does not equal a 1% increase in your damage output. This is because of the simple fact that a spell that does not hit cannot crit. If you have a 15% chance to crit but a 17% chance to miss, you will only crit with 12.45% of your shadow bolts, (15*0.83). Now add 1% crit: (16*0.83) = 13.28, or a .83% increase. Whereas 1% hit is basically a 1% linear increase in damage output.

Raid buffed, raid consumables (no world buffs): 602 spellpower
602 spellpower * 6/7 (shadowbolt spellpower coefficient) = +520.3 dmg
SB Rank 9 = (455+508)/2 = 481.5 avg dmg
481.5+520.3 = 1001.8 avg sb damage

Scenario 1k:
v1 base: 1000 shadowbolts (15% crit, 17% miss)
830 hits, 170 misses
830 * 0.1245 = 103.3 crits
(830 - 103.3) * 1001.8 = 728,008.0 (damage from non-crits)
(103.3 * 1001.8) * 2 = 206,971.9 (Ruin empowered crits)
Total damage = 934,979.9 damage

v2 +1%crit: 1000 shadowbolts (16% crit, 17% miss)
830 hits, 170 misses
830 * 0.1328 = 110.2 crits
(830 - 110.2) * 1001.8 = 721,095.6 (damage from non-crits)
(110.2 * 1001.8) *2 = 220,796.7 (Ruin empowered crits)
Total damage = 941,892.3
Diff = 6,912.4 = +0.74% damage increase

v3 +1%hit: 1000 shadowbolts (15% crit, 16% miss)
840 hits, 160 misses
840 * 0.1245 = 104.6 crits
(840 - 104.6) * 1001.8 = 736,723.7 (damage from non-crits)
(104.6 * 1001.8) * 2 = 209,576.6 (Ruin empowered crits)
Total Damage = 946,300.3 damage
Diff = 11,320.4 = 1.21% damage increase

You can argue until you are blue in the face Cousy, but math is math.

Numi wrote:I might be out of the loop on how crit chance works in vanilla, isn't it supposed to be a chance on every successful hit?

Its spread out over all casts, not just hits.

Numi wrote:So increasing hit still increases chance to crit?

this is accurate

Sources:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/forums/t ... and-mages/
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=355 ... rit-w-ruin
http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/4630 ... /?p=357910
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_hit
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_table