[BOOMKIN] Comprehensive BiS List (1.11/Naxx)

[Taladril]

Pottu, this is the one that should be stickied in my humble opinion.

I would really like to see if we could get at least some rough numbers to quantify stats, though solid numbers (at least from a mana regeneration standpoint) would be challenging. I'll just write my thoughts and hopefully some conversation can come from it and someone would do some testing that would help us out.

Spell power, hit, and crit are very straigtforward with what they do. I'm not much of an expert at theory of spell damage or how resists work. But lets just talk logically about them. Spell hit reduces the number of times that resists will be cast. You could break down a fight to look at 100 casts and see what average damage would be for a set amount of spell power. Most casts would hit, some would crit, some would resist.
Changing the hit would add more hits and less resists. Those hits would also possibly crit so all of that would need to be averaged but you could get a set damage increase because of the hit. When you have the damage increase you would then be able to compare it to what an x amount of spell power would do under the same circumstances. You could also do the same methodology for crit. All of this you could crunch with proper gear swapping and looking at the theorycraft addon.

Intellect provides spell crit but it also provides more mana pool. For an oomkin that means more spells cast.
Spirit and MP5 provides the opportunity over the course of the fight to cast more spells. Spi gets 15% with talents.
The problem with the extra spells cast with int, spi, and mp5 is that it's not just the number of spells that can be cast extra, but how powerful they are. All of these stats will be more valuable with better basic stats like spell power.
Going through this and just thinking about it I think this actually can be quantified. So a moonkin with theorycraft and some knowledge would need to do some calculations. Theorycraft gives a mana cost to a spell and a real mana cost. The real mana cost takes into account mana that will be regenerated during the course of the cast time. Since regeneration is a matter of percentage of number of casts the scaling with spell, hit, or crit would be linear (I think?) so we could actually put a real value to those stats. I'm sure the value is small but we could at least quantify it.
Quantifying int as just a larger mana pool is tricky though because it is a one time use as opposed to spi or mp5 which is a constantly regenerating number. Best I could think is that we could just take a fully buffed moonkin and see how many casts of a spell you get on average and then do math magic to see how much value getting that extra spell cast or two would have over the course of the fight.

[Keftenk]

For the past week (really ever since that first Moonkin thread popped up) I've been doing on going tests with Starfire and trying to get a proper stat weight for Balance. I'm not sure if this is the right way to even get them, but I collected a bunch of random green gear which had single stat values on them and went out testing. This is what I've recorded so far, but its frustrating collecting this data and then trying to predict what a certain piece of gear that has, in this instance, INT and SP on it. Only to see the prediction fall short of the actual number SW Stats cranks out.

I'm reluctant to even continue this process as it took quite a long time (100 casts for each stat value and test) to complete this task. Maybe if someone else can shed some insight on the topic I might be invigorated to collect some more...

Read the following data as follows: Stat Value = SW Stats DPS increase from base standard test (averages) = DPS breakdown divided by the total Stat Value which was used.


1 int = .03dps = .03dps
2 int = .05dps = .025dps
3 int = .08dps = .0266666666666667dps
4 int = .11dps = .0275dps
5 int = .14dps = .028dps
6 int = .17dps = .0283333333333333dps
7 int = .20dps = .0285714285714286dps
8 int = .23dps = .02875dps
9 int = .26dps = .0288888888888889dps
10 int = .29dps = .029dps
11 int = .32dps = .0290909090909091dps
12 int = .35dps = .0291666666666667dps
13 int = .38dps = .0292307692307692dps
14 int = .4dps = .0285714285714286dps
15 int = .43dps = .0286666666666667dps
16 int = .46dps = .02875dps
17 int = .49dps = .0288235294117647dps
18 int = .52dps = .0288888888888889dps
19 int = .55dps = .0289473684210526
20 int = .58dps = .029dps

1 sp = .29dps = .29dps
2 sp = .59dps = .295dps
3 sp = .89dps = .2966666666666667dps
4 sp = 1.18dps = .295dps
5 sp = 1.48dps = .296dps
6 sp = 1.78dps = .2966666666666667dps
7 sp = 2.07dps = .2957142857142857dps
8 sp = 2.37dps = .29625dps
9 sp = 2.67dps = .2966666666666667dps
10 sp = 2.96dps = .296dps
11 sp = 3.26dps = .2963636363636364dps
12 sp = 3.56dps = .2966666666666667dps
13 sp = 3.85dps = .2961538461538462dps
14 sp = 4.15dps = .2964285714285714dps
15 sp = 4.45dps = .2966666666666667dps
16 sp = 4.75dps = .296875dps
17 sp = 5.04dps = .2964705882352941dps
18 sp = 5.34dps = .2966666666666667dps
19 sp = 5.64dps = .2968421052631579dps
20 sp = 5.93dps = .2965dps


Multiple Stat Test 1: 7 int 20 Sp
Prediction: 166.57dps
Actual: 166.58dps

Multiple Stat Test 2: 18 int 14 sp
Prediction: 165.11dps
Actual: 165.13dps

Multiple Stat Test 3: 100 int 0 sp
Prediction: 163.34
Actual: 163.36dps

* 100 int = .292dps = .0292dps


Below is complete theory with NO TESTS conducted:

Starfire R6 + Moonglow R3
baseDPS = 160.44dps
1m/5 = .1121958041958042dps

[Taladril]

This is some excellent data. So given that here's how stats can look so far:
1 sp = 1 point (for simplicity. same concept as how healing does it)
1 sp is .297 dps
1 int is .0292 dps as a function of it being crit.
Means that 1% crit is 1.752 dps
Also recorded 1 mp5 is 0.112 dps

Points as of now:
SP: 1
Int: 0.098 (mana pool wasn't calculated above so maybe should be more)
Crit: 5.9
Hit: Unknown
MP5: 0.377
Spi: Unknown

Keftenk, did I interpret your data correctly?

[Keftenk]

Hmmm can we really generalize SP like that? I mean healing in T3 for us is 1.2 a point.

I've been working on Hit gear under the assumption that INT and SP are correct values. So, I'm just taking my data from what I've collected thus far and removing the INT and SP values in the end. I can only go up to 12% hit though...

I should have that testing done in the next few days.

[Taladril]

Hmmm can we really generalize SP like that? I mean healing in T3 for us is 1.2 a point.

I've been working on Hit gear under the assumption that INT and SP are correct values. So, I'm just taking my data from what I've collected thus far and removing the INT and SP values in the end. I can only go up to 12% hit though...

I should have that testing done in the next few days.

It's all just a ratio anyway so simplifying one of the numbers to 1 is simplest. SP makes the most sense since its similar to how healing gear gets counted. The important thing is to see how much more or less valuable other stats are compared to sp. I thought crit would be more important. Maybe we need to verify those numbers? Currently it would mean that the moonkin 3% crit is only worth 17.7 spell power. That seems really low. Is spell power just that important for moonkins? What is the point difference for mages or locks?

[Keftenk]

From my previous comments in the other thread I made clear that SP > Crit for Moonkin. The Crit build method is a vanilla artifact that needs to just go away. It was never right. Starfire is a 100% coef. spell...

I can reverse engineer the DPS ratings for Crit after I'm done with Hit. I'll just apply the same method I'm doing with the Hit tests. I should be able to test quite high with Crit seeing as I can get 18% Spell Crit from world buffs. The sampling will have to be much, much, much lower though since Songflower only lasts 60min. However, I may not have to actually go that high to get a good estimated value.

INT and SP values took me around 4-5 days to complete. Hit should only take me about a day and a half I think to complete to 12%. I don't have the gear to get to 16% at the moment. Hopefully I can have Crit done as well by Tuesday or Wednesday.

[Taladril]

Since, like I said, int drives crit hopefully your crit numbers will match your int numbers. If not then you should look for what the discrepancy is. Looking forward to seeing the results.

[Keftenk]

I completed the Hit trials. Which took me less time as expected due to the lack of gear, heh. The only way I'll be able to test 13-16% is if I acquire more gear. Unfortunately ZG doesn't seem to ever drop the Gloves, Cloak, or other Zanzil ring, rip. We may not need that data anyways. Here are those results:

1 hit = 1.94dps = 1.94dps
2 hit = 3.89dps = 1.945dps
3 hit = 5.83dps = 1.943333333333333dps
4 hit = 7.78dps = 1.945dps
5 hit = 9.73dps = 1.946dps
6 hit = 11.68dps = 1.946666666666667dps
7 hit = 13.62dps = 1.945714285714286dps
8 hit = 15.57dps = 1.94625dps
9 hit = 17.52dps = 1.946666666666667dps
10 hit = 19.47dps = 1.947dps
11 hit = 21.42dps = 1.947272727272727dps
12 hit = 23.37dps = 1.9475dps
13 hit = ?dps = ?dps
14 hit = ?dps = ?dps
15 hit = ?dps = ?dps
16 hit = ?dps = ?dps

Again, numbers were acquired under the assumption that the above posts INT and SP values are CORRECT. So, if they aren't correct then this makes these tests completely invalid.

Bloodvine Vest Test 1: 13 int 27 Sp 2% hit
Prediction: 172.72dps
Actual: 172.95dps

Bloodvine Leggings Test 1: 6 int 37 Sp 1% hit
Prediction: 173.52dps
Actual: 173.69dps

Something seems a bit off. The discrepancy gets larger than expected with every test I do. It has to be some sort of scaling with Hit:SP. I'm assuming Crit will react the same. This might warrant even further testing with gear that is strictly just Hit and strictly just SP. Does such gear even exist? I can use items like Soul Corrupter's Neckalce, but that has INT on it..

It could be just a small margin, but I'm worried when say, I pop a Flask of Supreme Power and then 1 Hit acts completely different than what I've tested. Or it might not, who knows haha... Also, how does this all react to things like Power Infusion and Nightfall, etc. Is it just a straight % increase? Aghhh!!

Quite frustrating results.

A brief note on the M/5 stat weight. I did not do any testing on it. I just theorized 1mana every 5 seconds coming back on a Rank6 Starfire under Moonglow R3 and converted it into potential DPS increases (assuming you ran out of mana). When Rank7 comes out, this value will decrease to .1038446601941748dps. If that is even accurate. It would be completely different for Wrath and even the inclusion of Moonfire in a rotation (if your guild would even allow it).

It needs to be understood that M/5 and SPI are only "dps increases" if and only if you run out of mana. Otherwise the stats are useless and don't contribute to an actual DPS increase.

[Taladril]

Updated points as of now:
SP: 1
Int: 0.098 (mana pool wasn't calculated above so maybe should be more)
Crit: 5.9
Hit: 6.55
MP5: 0.377
Spi: Unknown

Agreed on int for larger mana pool as well as spi and mp5 that they only benefit to more dps if you actually run out of mana. If you don't then they are not contributing to a dps increase. As for how you calculated mp5, that's what I would have done so I think you're good. Any chance on calculating spirit's equivalent to mp5 given 15% regen?

And a thought for int and its increased mana pool. It is so hard to quantify and the benefit of a larger base mana pool is the increased ability to potentially cast one to a few more spells. The strength of those spells would affect the value of that pool so this of all stats seems the most varied. I'd think we could just round it up to 0.1 and call it good. Cheating too much?

[Keftenk]

It might be cheating a little bit. As for Spirit, my bet is that it'll be quite low in terms of reflective DPS. It will be the last thing I'll test since its priority is also quite low. Crit 1-7% is done and I've started sitting around for Rallycry to test out the next 10%. There might be a possibility I could have the Crit testing done tonight if I do nothing but this, otherwise should be complete by Tuesday.