Nostalrius Begins - Quality wow vanilla realm (1.12)

Is it 8% or 9% ideally? Is there the "always at least 1%" to miss like with casters?

I asked this in https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 20#p162834, but I still don't have a great answer. To the best of my theorycrafting, the 1% hit = 15 AP stat value you see in most BiS lists is probably correct. I'm rocking 5% hit in my current cat gear (ony tooth pendant, devilsaur, don julio's, and rune of the guard captain), and I put up a new highscore on Firemaw this week.

To be honest, how much you value hit is almost inconsequential compared to using a Wolfshead Helm (easy) and learning to powershift well (hard). If you want to improve your cat dps, powershifting is where you'll make the biggest gains.

I think the hit cap vs lvl 63 raidbosses is 8.6%, so you could aim for that.

I will say however that hit is not terribly important for feral, aim for about 5-6% and you're pretty much covered. Don't gimp your attackpower and crit just so you can get hitcapped, ferals don't have any "procs" that are dependent on hits and we don't generate rage with white hits. So it's really just about getting enough hit that misses don't fuck up the rotation too much, after which it's crit and attackpower all the way.

I only have 4% hit myself and I don't feel like misses are any problem in our raids:
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Thenif

I hope to get drake fang talisman at some point though. Shit hasn't dropped in our raids at all and it has fury warrior priority, so if I'm going to get it it has to start dropping!

TheNIF wrote:I think the hit cap vs lvl 63 raidbosses is 8.6%, so you could aim for that.

I will say however that hit is not terribly important for feral, aim for about 5-6% and you're pretty much covered. Don't gimp your attackpower and crit just so you can get hitcapped, ferals don't have any "procs" that are dependent on hits and we don't generate rage with white hits. So it's really just about getting enough hit that misses don't fuck up the rotation too much, after which it's crit and attackpower all the way.

I only have 4% hit myself and I don't feel like misses are any problem in our raids:
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Thenif

I hope to get drake fang talisman at some point though. Shit hasn't dropped in our raids at all and it has fury warrior priority, so if I'm going to get it it has to start dropping!

To me this does not make any sense. Why wouldn't hit cap be priority over everything else? A miss with Shred/FB is a huge dps lost, both time wise but also energy wise and it usually (for me atleast) risk fucking powershifting combo up (if you miss FB and do a quick out shift and you realize you didnt even get FB off...)

I understand that stats/crit/ap whatever is a huge deal for feral, but does it really outshine getting hit capped?

Skinkelynet wrote:

TheNIF wrote:I think the hit cap vs lvl 63 raidbosses is 8.6%, so you could aim for that.

I will say however that hit is not terribly important for feral, aim for about 5-6% and you're pretty much covered. Don't gimp your attackpower and crit just so you can get hitcapped, ferals don't have any "procs" that are dependent on hits and we don't generate rage with white hits. So it's really just about getting enough hit that misses don't fuck up the rotation too much, after which it's crit and attackpower all the way.

I only have 4% hit myself and I don't feel like misses are any problem in our raids:
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=NRB&player=Thenif

I hope to get drake fang talisman at some point though. Shit hasn't dropped in our raids at all and it has fury warrior priority, so if I'm going to get it it has to start dropping!

To me this does not make any sense. Why wouldn't hit cap be priority over everything else? A miss with Shred/FB is a huge dps lost, both time wise but also energy wise and it usually (for me atleast) risk fucking powershifting combo up (if you miss FB and do a quick out shift and you realize you didnt even get FB off...)

I understand that stats/crit/ap whatever is a huge deal for feral, but does it really outshine getting hit capped?

You are sort of comparing having hit vs not having hit. Instead of comparing "how much dps would this item with hit, versus this other item with no hit but more attackpower and crit, give me".

Any particular item you can equip that gives you hit, has an (in most cases) alternative with more attackpower and crit. So what you are comparing is "how much dps would I lose from missing one attack out of so and so many" versus "how much extra dps would I do if every single attack I make benefits from 20 more attackpower"?

For example, compare Truestrike shoulders with Flamescarred. Those are your top pre-raid non-pvp BiS shoulders to compare.

Truestrike has 24 attackpower and +2% hit. It does not benefit from any talents or blessing of kings.
Flamescarred has 12str 12 agi. That's 45 attackpower in a raidsetting (assuming kings), and 0,66% crit.

With truestrike you will miss less attacks. With flamescarred every attack you make will hit harder, and they'll all have an increased small chance of being a crit. The question of which one you go for is not so straightforward and actually depends on how much you miss already. If you have no hit gear at all, or only 2-3% hit, I'd go Truestrike. If you have 4 or more, I'd go Flamescarred. At 4% hit my own experience is that the small amount of misses I get is not disruptive enough on my cycle to merit downgrading my attackpower and crit to just get more hits.

Theorycrafting is one thing of course, how it plays out and how it "feels" to you is another. I think I've found a decent sweetspot myself. But if you're shooting for >8% hit I think you'll be missing out on too much crit and attackpower in pursuit of a perfect cycle that's not going give you the dps you want anyway.

Hit is one of those things that is very hard to intuitively get when looking at and feeling the effects of, in a real world setting. Druids are no different than any other melee (or spellcaster if boomkin) in that they need to try to achieve hit cap. Hit cap is and always will be in vanilla your greatest source of dps increase up until the point of getting to the cap (8.6%). This is particularly true to cat dps because a significant portion of dps from cat is the yellow damage. Getting to hit cap means that your special attacks will never miss. Missing those attacks significantly impacts your total dps. This is even more drastically the case if you are a powershifter.
Now I would not go so extreme as to take a huge loss in gear to max out hit (there are some weapons with hit but they are so bad compared to others). However we will be given a much better set of gear soon enough with ZG. It will allow us to easily grab 4 or more % of hit gear with very little in the way of compromise.

Light reading:
http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/6628 ... o-friends/
http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Hit

Taladril wrote:Hit is one of those things that is very hard to intuitively get when looking at and feeling the effects of, in a real world setting. Druids are no different than any other melee (or spellcaster if boomkin) in that they need to try to achieve hit cap. Hit cap is and always will be in vanilla your greatest source of dps increase up until the point of getting to the cap (8.6%). This is particularly true to cat dps because a significant portion of dps from cat is the yellow damage. Getting to hit cap means that your special attacks will never miss. Missing those attacks significantly impacts your total dps. This is even more drastically the case if you are a powershifter.
Now I would not go so extreme as to take a huge loss in gear to max out hit (there are some weapons with hit but they are so bad compared to others). However we will be given a much better set of gear soon enough with ZG. It will allow us to easily grab 4 or more % of hit gear with very little in the way of compromise.

Light reading:
http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/6628 ... o-friends/
http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Hit

^^ Good stuff

I don't think the rogue hit values are relevant. A dual-wield class with with greater white damage is a different beast, especially when you consider all their different procs like poisons, HoJ, WF. Boomkins and other casters are also different. Mana users still spend all the mana for a spell when it doesn't hit, but we get back the bulk of our energy (80%) when a shred/claw/rake misses. I think you still lose all the energy for finishers, but FB is used relatively infrequently compared to shred so it shouldn't make a big difference.

I realize I never directly answered the OP's question. I don't aim for any minimum hit%. I take whatever gear has the highest AP-equivalent, including whatever set bonuses come into play.