Trinket Stacking

[bigmacattacks]

Why doesnt Natural Alignment Crystal and ZG trinket stack? I remember it did im vanilla?

[Youfie]

They couldn't be stacked in 1.12, you couldn't use both trinket after 1.9 or something like that, and NR isn't 1.9 yet content-wise, but it's 1.12 from the beginning regarding mechanics like this one .

[Aethelwulf]

Actually, when it comes to itemization, Nost tries to keep the items on the current progression patch of WoW instead of 1.12. It's a bug.

[Youfie]

I'm 99,99% sure it's intended, since it's not the items themselves, it can be regarded as a "mechanic" : most on-use trinket trigger a cooldown equal to their duration, if any, on other said trinkets equipped in the other slot.

Some time ago there was even a hotfix from Nostalrius because with proper macros spamming, this mechanic could be bypassed because of the lag, so they made the buffs from ToEP / ZHC (probably others too, but been told about these ones by a guildie) replace each other / don't stack with each other, iirc.

[Aethelwulf]

Cooldown behavior is item behavior. Item mechanical behavior is still item behavior. Nost went out of its way to replicate blizzlike progression for items including old stats and mechanical behavior (which is why for instance they temporarily allowed people to use spell damage with oil of immolation until guilds started speedrunning raids with 40man oils when they nerfed it anyway) so the fact that you can't stack a ZHC+NAC under the current progression is just a bug.

[Youfie]

Cooldown behavior is item behavior. Item mechanical behavior is still item behavior. Nost went out of its way to replicate blizzlike progression for items including old stats and mechanical behavior (which is why for instance they temporarily allowed people to use spell damage with oil of immolation until guilds started speedrunning raids with 40man oils when they nerfed it anyway) so the fact that you can't stack a ZHC+NAC under the current progression is just a bug.

I disagree with you regarding your "coldown behavior should be regarded as content rather than a mechanic" point, and so does the staff, but I understand why you would have liked to work that way, I guess trinket combo is kinda fun as an Elemental Shaman!

[Aethelwulf]

I'm a bit annoyed at your insinuation that my argument is rooted in powergaming tendencies. The point I am making is simple: All item stats, mechanics, etc. in Nostalrius are supposed to be reflecting the item's behavior during the original content progression patch. When the item behavior gets updated through patches, that behavior gets modified at the time that the content patch is rolled out. There are already several items whose stats have been modified and remade in WoW using old stats/etc. because we are on an older content progression patch and when the patch updates the items will be changed too (unless it's one of those cases where the item gets remade multiple times and people still had old versions in vanilla - it's weird). This was a deliberate design choice in Nostalrius's content progression. Strictly speaking, it's a bug under this philosophy if the item does not work as intended during the patch of choice.

Now I guess you are choosing the draw a distinction between "what an item does" and "how it works" vis-a-vis cooldown mechanics to say that because we are on 1.12 the item should be using 1.12 mechanics as a way of saying "sure it worked different in 1.8, and sure we're supposed to have 1.8 items, but I think we're supposed to use it like it worked in 1.12" which is an incredibly dubious interpretation of the Nost philosophy given that a while ago they even buffed Oil of Immolation to scale with spell damage as it originally did simply to be more blizzlike and in line with the content patch. Incidentally, double trinket use was nerfed in 1.10. Now, the issue here is that your argument frankly has no basis other than your own self-confidence and insinuation that disagreement is rooted in a desire for stronger trinkets.

[Youfie]

The staff seems to work "case-by-case" when changing or not items which effects / mechanics were modified through Vanilla. You quoted the Oil of Immolation as an example, while the Accurascope was handled the opposite way for instance.

Regarding this particular matter of Trinket Stacking, I personnaly agree with the staff on that one, even though I understand your view, I don't share it.

And I merely stated that NAC + ZHC sounds fun, you don't need to feel offended about it, this wasn't m'y attention. I could have fun with un-nerfed trinkets too as a Rogue (ZHM + ES + Ambush anyone? )!

[Aethelwulf]

Eh, it just seemed to me that you were ascribing less-than-charitable motives to my post, so I was a tad offended. Perhaps I was just reading into it too much.

On a side note, if Rogues want to have fun with trinkets, Renataki's Charm of Trickery comes strongly recommended.

[Youfie]

On a side note, if Rogues want to have fun with trinkets, Renataki's Charm of Trickery comes strongly recommended.

I was talking "trinket-stacking"-wise, but yeah RCoT is awesome, can't wait to get my hands on it next week!