Talk to me about vanilla Shamans...

[drabus]

I've been exclusive with alliance over the past 10 years, and were not introduced into shamans until dwarves could be shamans in Cataclysm. I leveled one to max level and played primarily as a healer and enjoyed it almost as much as my druid healer.

So as someone new to the horde - and wanting to experience the original shamans for what they are, please share your thoughts on the three spec lines in vanilla. Are they all viable for PvE? Raids? PvP?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

[Hatson]

So, I'll just speak from the Enhancement side of it. Having played Enhancement for many years on retail as well as 3 times on Vanilla.

Oh, my. If you ask me - You are in for one hell of a ride. Well, that is, if you go Enhancement.
But ye be warned. Not many people want anything to do with an enhancement in their raids (except for the single one using Nightfall). However you can always opt to just PvP with it. Enhancement is THE one-shot class/build in all of Vanilla, if you ask me.
(Although in late parts of Vanilla, Warriors tend to get so crazy with the item scaling, that their burst in PvP can sometimes outperform even WF)

You have to understand that, Shamans can't dual-wield in Vanilla, that was something introduced in BC - So, to compensate for the massive DPS buff that is dual-wielding, they also had to massively nerf the dmg you get on a WF proc, and normalize the proc rate with a psuedo-random mechanic. Similar to what DotA uses on some of its' heroes.

Of course that change in BC, changed Enhancement forever, and made it an actual "sort of" viable dps spec in raids. And it definitely got some talents and new kinks that helped enhancement be taken more seriously in the PvE aspect of the game.
HOWEVER - The vanilla Enhancement used 2handers, which you gain through the talent tree. And proc'ing WF with a 2hander in vanilla... Let me tell you.. It's something to behold. Especially when you get the proper weapon with the slow swing speed and decent gear.

Things don't really get rolling however as Enhancement until you get Stormstrike, at the bottom of the Enhancement tree. The skill might seem a bit lackluster at first glance, with such a long cooldown holding it back for any real PvE dps purpose. However, just the fact that it gives you another instant swing - That is the cake on its' own. Getting a chance to proc more WF more often, is all you want in life, baby!

So once you get Stormstrike, a decent weapon and gear, and as a must bonus: Hand of Justice. - Then you'll have a fun time 1 shotting anything in your path PvP wise and solo PvE / 5-man dungeon wise when WF procs.
Or even better, when the stars align, and you proc WF on the normal swing + on the Stormstrike + on the HoJ.

That's 1+2, 1+2, 1+2 = 9 instant swings (6 of them being WF hits, with massively increased Attack Power - the bonus hits from WF always hit way harder than the normal one). - Then factor in your crit chance - And you'll be making swift corpses out of just about anything with 5k HP or less.

But I digress, I'm rambling now about Enhancement PvP... Of course they're great fun there, but their PvE side, is a typical hybrid story. You'll do less competitive dps than the proper dps classes, and relying 100% on a 20% proc chance as ~75% of your damage output or more? - Well, let's just say you're the least consistent dps in the game. - But you'll still pull aggro every now and then on mobs if your first swing is a WF proc. Trust me, that's not so fun, haha.

As for Elemental and Resto? - Eh, about the same deal as ever. But then again, I never play healer, and the only played Elemental in BC and later. And the only difference in Vanilla Elemental compared to later - There's no Overload mechanic, so you won't see as many billions of lightning bolts, aww. - The dps is less, so again, not a competitive dps spec. - Decent for PvP, when you have Elemental Mastery ready. Otherwise, elemental is a pretty meh spec. - It's alright for leveling, though.

Wouldn't know anything about resto, like I said, never heal.

Probably the most famous vid regarding the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja1j7xWpB3w#t=20
And here's another bonus one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbAD6RqOUJo#t=69

[drabus]

Thanks Hatson.

So if I read that correctly - as an enhancement I'll want a slow 2 hander for the WF procs? I'll have to check it out.

Anyone else have opinions on the other specs?

[Hatson]

Thanks Hatson.

So if I read that correctly - as an enhancement I'll want a slow 2 hander for the WF procs? I'll have to check it out.

Anyone else have opinions on the other specs?

Yes, the higher the top-end damage , the better it is. WF procs is by far most of your damage output. They're RNG as hell, and it can be absolutely crazy, or completely underwhelming depending on your luck.
So, generally, the slower the weapon is, the more top-end damage it will do on its' swings. Unless that slower weapon is of less quality or level than the faster one.

[Drain]

Restoration is a healing tree. It does exactly what you would expect, and not much else. It's really not worth investing much into until max level. Even if you do want to heal dungeons, you can do so just by having gear and water for it. You could invest 11 points, which is enough to get useful traits, then put the rest somewhere else. Healing trees won't be very useful in general on small private servers with rare dungeon runs. When questing, which is what you'll spend most of your time doing, investing in more damage makes more sense. Mobs die faster to damage than they do to heals.

Elemental turns you into a Mage. The damage is very high, the problem is mana. The reason Enhancement is the winner is because it puts damage into autoattacks and buff procs, which don't cost mana. Enhancement can rock kills perfectly fine with an empty bar. Elemental however needs mana to do anything, and you'll be worthless when you run out. Unlike Mages, you don't have infinite fairy dust water, either. You'll be stuck buying all of yours.

[rewind]

Well, looks like Hatson vision on enhancement is a "little" biased

Where should I begin ?
Enhancement is kind of a nerfed warrior, he can't do what people except from shamans in pvp.
What do people except from a shaman in pvp ? Purging targets, assisting in dps with their insane burst and assisting at healing, dispelling poison.
Enh try to do the same thing than a warrior, without stable dps, without ms, without gap closer (charge, intercept), without a proper kick ( shock cd is too long and cutcast is not long enough to totally prevent from casting), without cc.

Why is elemental better than enhancement ?
+ Cast from range ( sadly all these crits videos does not show how easy it is to kite an enh sham)
+ The gear is oriented on intell, spellpower and magic crits = bigger manapool and better healing
+ Does not rely on a proc, even if non-crit, bolts do dps ( ele crits are insane) and deals magic damages which means you don't care about target's armor (no, an enh sham is never going to insta kill a mail/plate geared player with 5k+ hp)
+ Carry a shield all the time = more armor against melee dps
+ Talents allows ele to get an instant cast = panic or bust button
+ Talents points in resto allows ele to raid as healers in pve.

Video links are proc/crits compilation from 2006 against backpedalers having no clue about their class , we will soon be in 2015 everybody knows how to play vanilla wow properly.

But that's about efficiency, gaming is about fun, if you do like enhancement gameplay then go for it

[Anselm]

Just a quick advice cause i dont want to write like dozens of paragraphs : if you want to play elem sham, i hope you're a pvpboy. This spec isn't usefull at all in vanilla raids. Goes the same way for enhanced sham without Nightfall. It means you'll have to use it in all raids even if you got a better weapon later (for the raid's and you're own usefullness sake).

Btw @Hatson : Elemental Mastery in elem PvP spec ? hahaha nice one


PS : +1 Rewind <3

[venven]

Well, looks like Hatson vision on enhancement is a "little" biased

Where should I begin ?
Enhancement is kind of a nerfed warrior, he can't do what people except from shamans in pvp.
What do people except from a shaman in pvp ? Purging targets, assisting in dps with their insane burst and assisting at healing, dispelling poison.
Enh try to do the same thing than a warrior, without stable dps, without ms, without gap closer (charge, intercept), without a proper kick ( shock cd is too long and cutcast is not long enough to totally prevent from casting), without cc.

Why is elemental better than enhancement ?
+ Cast from range ( sadly all these crits videos does not show how easy it is to kite an enh sham)
+ The gear is oriented on intell, spellpower and magic crits = bigger manapool and better healing
+ Does not rely on a proc, even if non-crit, bolts do dps ( ele crits are insane) and deals magic damages which means you don't care about target's armor (no, an enh sham is never going to insta kill a mail/plate geared player with 5k+ hp)
+ Carry a shield all the time = more armor against melee dps
+ Talents allows ele to get an instant cast = panic or bust button
+ Talents points in resto allows ele to raid as healers in pve.

Video links are proc/crits compilation from 2006 against backpedalers having no clue about their class , we will soon be in 2015 everybody knows how to play vanilla wow properly.

But that's about efficiency, gaming is about fun, if you do like enhancement gameplay then go for it

+1 fucking elems

[Hatson]

Btw @Hatson : Elemental Mastery in elem PvP spec ? hahaha nice one

It's either that or Nature's Swiftness. Do you want to pretend to be a 3 minute mage and have an instant cast? Personal tastes, really. You could argue the instant cast is much more useful. I wouldn't argue against it really.

[Hatson]

Alright, alright, guys.

What do people except from a shaman in pvp ? Purging targets, assisting in dps with their insane burst and assisting at healing, dispelling poison.

You can easily do all of these as Enhancement, except for the healing part, really. What are you getting at here? A shaman that doesn't purge whenever he's supposed to, or dispel poisons of friends, is simply not playing his class right, no matter the spec.

Enh try to do the same thing than a warrior, without stable dps, without ms, without gap closer (charge, intercept),

All true. I never said Enhancement is good in those fields. All I said is that they're good for 1 shotting people. And I even said Warriors tend to do even better at that sometimes with late gear.

without a proper kick ( shock cd is too long and cutcast is not long enough to totally prevent from casting), without cc.

Eh, I dunno. The cooldown is only 5 seconds. And the mana cost on Rank 1 Earth Shock is iirc, 30 mana or so, so being oom is never an issue for 5 sec CD ranged interrupts. (if you don't use Rank downs, you again, don't know how to play the game, not a matter of spec or class).

Why is elemental better than enhancement ?
+ Cast from range ( sadly all these crits videos does not show how easy it is to kite an enh sham)
+ The gear is oriented on intell, spellpower and magic crits = bigger manapool and better healing
+ Does not rely on a proc, even if non-crit, bolts do dps ( ele crits are insane) and deals magic damages which means you don't care about target's armor (no, an enh sham is never going to insta kill a mail/plate geared player with 5k+ hp)
+ Carry a shield all the time = more armor against melee dps
+ Talents allows ele to get an instant cast = panic or bust button
+ Talents points in resto allows ele to raid as healers in pve.

All true. Of course you're never going to instant kill a 5k+ HP. That's why I said >5k HP. And if you read it properly, you'd know I said that was when the stars aligned, aka getting WF proc on auto, SS and HoJ.
I think you can do math quickly in your head and see how unlikely it is. But it has happened to me a number of times before. And it does do around 5k dmg in proper gear. Maybe 4k on mail/plate. But the following shock would round it at about 4500.
Again, the chances of that happening are "when the stars align".

Video links are proc/crits compilation from 2006 against backpedalers having no clue about their class , we will soon be in 2015 everybody knows how to play vanilla wow properly.

Oh yeah, you don't have to remind anyone of that. Problem is the only enhancement clips really are from vanilla retail. Not a lot of people like to play them on privates. And this exact reason is one of the big reasons why.
I mean, I could just roll a Mage and rape everyone, if I wanted to. But I always have a soft spot for WF.
Sure, hybrids are mostly inferior in every single way. But there's charm to them that I always liked, even on all my years of retail, my main was always a Feral Druid. Ever since Vanilla.
Oh, and I am definitely biased about Enhancement, because I love it. But we all know if looking at statistics, history, efficiency, etc - Then pretty much all hybrids underperform in every fashion.

But that's about efficiency, gaming is about fun, if you do like enhancement gameplay then go for it

And that's all my post about it was supposed to radiate - Fun! At least, that's the only reason I play video games in my life. I hate powergaming, or tryharding. It gets so tiresome after a while. I used to be that guy sometimes, but I found myself enjoying gaming and free time much, much more, throwing all that aside and just having fun with the people I play with on top of everything else.

In fact. This is pretty much how I feel about it IRL.