Brock's Retribution Guide

[Brock]

I'm not sure this guide was written for Nost, but perhaps another server?

When I first wrote this guide I did write it on another server, but I've reworked the guide to fit this server.

A few questions I have for you.
1) why is your guide not structured around Nost if your listing pre-raid gear? (You have no substitutes for the gear not obtainable)

I have made a pre-bis list, the second list you've seen is purely for calculating the manapool.

2) Since you mention PvE and not PvP, what are you recommending on how to raid?

If you read the guide I've explained the basics on how you raid? Could you please specify what you mean?

3) I see you only recommend 1h weapons, why would you suggest that when 2h spec is in the Ret tree, not to mention you linked an offhand that is not obtainable, would t it be better to use 2h for Ret?

Just because there is a talent which gives you 6% more damage on a 2-H, that doesn't necessarily mean that a 2-H is better. Regarding the off-hand I haven't checked if it's obtainable yet. I'll look into that immediately.

Retribution

4) I notice Talents that are not working properly in this build, could you perhaps give a detailed explanation on why certain talents are being over over other that are not?

Could you specify which talents whom isn't working properly with this build? And yes, I can explain why certain talents are being over others, would you like be to explain them in the guide or for you?

Indeed, you clearly want the 8% hit.

This is for 2 hander and melee, not spell power (Spell hit is actually 16% for casters), if you want melee 1hander it's more then 8% (please correct me if I am wrong on this)

Whether it's a 2-H or 1-H you need 8% hit, since you'll still be hitting with a 1-H?... You're base damage comes from white and SoR hits, so you'll be missing out on a lot of damage if you don't have the hit cap.
You are correct that the spell hit cap is 16%, but that isn't possible to obtain since you need to focus on more important attributes.

Spell power is indeed important, since SP is stacking with your abilities (SoR, JSOR, Consecration).

This is not accurate for Nostalrius!

How come it's not accurate? Please deliberate.

please take some time and read this small guide I wrote on Paladin Stats.
I would love to discuss many things with you in regards of stats.

I've read your guide and we can discuss stats if you'd like, just contact me ingame or on PM.

Kind regards,
Brock.

[smilkovpetko]

As JC said :

Hit cap for 1h is 16% , for 2h is 8%.

Benediction in server does not work.

Eye for an Eye - please tell us why this is used as PVE (retribution dps) spec?
Ain't retribution suppose to DPS and not Tank ?

The Gear in Nostalrius (currently) does not give Spell Damage (that will be in 1.9+ patch)

Current Version in Nostalrius is 1.6 and abilities work in 1.12

Consecration in Nostalrius work with both AP and SP .

[Brock]

problem is not "finding hard to trust me" .
Problem is if you willing to accept something that is not Feenix.

Honestly, that is not the reason. But I'm not going to go off-topic.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_2.1.0 (TBC)
-Improved Seal of Righteousness: The percentage increase in damage from this talent is now applied after all bonuses from items and effects which increase your spell damage.
(which mean it should never be increased by spell damage until tbc making this "much useless talent that i never use" and gives us barely 5-10 damage or max 19 tps per sor swing.

Even if what you say is valid, SoR still stacks with SP even if you don't get 15% extra from Improved Seal of Righteousness, but I'll look more into that.

Regarding Immolation oil :
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... il#p121861
i will let theloras explain you regarding immolation oil more since he have witness people eating ban for that.

I can't see any statement from the Nostalrius-team that it is illegal to use Oil of Immolation in PvE.

Thunderfury also does not and should never scale with spell damage.

I've never said that Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker, please don't go off-topic.

Kind regards,
Brock.

[Brock]

As JC said :

Hit cap for 1h is 16% , for 2h is 8%.

That is the soft-cap if you use 2 1-H's, like a Rogue or Warrior. But since you are only using 1-H, then the hit cap is 8%.

Benediction in server does not work.

I'll add another talent tree which can be used instead due to bugs then, thanks for the information.

Eye for an Eye - please tell us why this is used as PVE (retribution dps) spec?
Ain't retribution suppose to DPS and not Tank ?

Because on bosses who uses AoE damage in form of spells can crit and that gives you extra damage.

The Gear in Nostalrius (currently) does not give Spell Damage (that will be in 1.9+ patch)

Lieutenant Commander's Redoubt gives SP, so your statement is false.

Current Version in Nostalrius is 1.6 and abilities work in 1.12

Can you specify what you mean?

Consecration in Nostalrius work with both AP and SP .

Yes, and?

[smilkovpetko]

boss and npc should never crit with spells. its either bug or not proper . (do you have confirmation in nostalrius that any spell from npc or boss crit?)

[Brock]

don't get me wrong , i like your guide but i want to let you be aware of the bugs and stuffs that are not same as Feenix.

Good to hear.

Another thing = your guide will be Valid only (if my report for sor get fixed) since neither Feenix , neither Nostalrius is using Vanilla SoR version.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean, but you are saying that my guide will only be valid if your report is approved? How come it will be valid if your report gets approved. You do not have to answer this question, it's off-topic.

i did reply this sort of message because :

If there is something I missed that you want me to explain, then go ahead and tell me. I just shared some of my basic-knowledge, please come with suggestions to improve this guide.

Sure, please come with suggestions, but you have a tendency to go off-topic on some matters. So please focus on the important matters.

Kind regards,
Brock.

[smilkovpetko]

sor apparently is not increased as much with Spell Damage as it should be according to retail vanilla .
another thing is that sor is not getting affected by AP (220 ap = 1 or 2 dmg) .

The way i posted the link says : min and max weapon damage should increase sor damage too (apparently does not in nostalrius) .

[Theloras]

You should take a look at the Nostalrius bugs affecting Paladins here - Retribution in particular is hit quite hard by some major game breaking bugs - and then go back and address your guide:

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=25556

So I went through the Nost bug tracker and have compiled the list below to show our main Retribution bugs - I'm leaving Prot on the side for the time being.

If anyone has other bugs to either list on the tracker or here on the forum, please let me know:

Seal/Judgement of Command and weapon/item procs
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=2839

Sanctity Aura
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1344

[Paladin]Two Consecrations won't stack
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1160

All AOE Spells Consuming a Debuff Slot
http://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1421

Seal of Command (Delay)
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1289

seal of Command Absorb Shield
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1416

[PALADIN] Vengeance not proccing on "spell" crits
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=2825

Benediction (doesn't work with SoC or SotC)
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1307

Basically, none of our talents/spells/abilities either work properly or are even able to function at all in a 40man raid due to bugged debuff slots or the 8 debuff slot limit.

[JCarrill0]

There is 2 (yes 2) paladin rank 10 sets, one that is no spell power, and later gets an update, is a completely new set (making the old set unobtainable) that has spell power.

Lieutenant Commander's Redoubt NEW

Knight-Captain's Lamellar Breastplate
Knight-Captain's Lamellar Leggings
Knight-Lieutenant's Lamellar Gauntlets
Knight-Lieutenant's Lamellar Sabatons
Lieutenant Commander's Lamellar Headguard
Lieutenant Commander's Lamellar Shoulders

Set Bonuses
Wearing more pieces of this set will convey bonuses to your character.

• 2 pieces: Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 23.
• 4 pieces: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Justice by 10 sec.
• 6 pieces: +20 Stamina.

Lieutenant Commander's Aegis OLD

Knight-Lieutenant's Lamellar Gauntlets
Knight-Lieutenant's Lamellar Sabatons
Knight-Captain's Lamellar Breastplate
Knight-Captain's Lamellar Leggings
Lieutenant Commander's Lamellar Headguard
Lieutenant Commander's Lamellar Shoulders

Set Bonuses
Wearing more pieces of this set will convey bonuses to your character.

• 2 pieces: Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.
• 2 pieces: +6 Intellect.
• 4 pieces: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Justice by 10 sec.
• 6 pieces: +15 Stamina.

I'm not sure this guide was written for Nost, but perhaps another server?

When I first wrote this guide I did write it on another server, but I've reworked the guide to fit this server.

I have not seen that in this guide, can you please show me where/how? The points I was posting was trying to see where & how

I have made a pre-bis list, the second list you've seen is purely for calculating the manapool.

See this is my point, the items you listed are not obtainable yet.

Just because there is a talent which gives you 6% more damage on a 2-H, that doesn't necessarily mean that a 2-H is better. Regarding the off-hand I haven't checked if it's obtainable yet. I'll look into that immediately.

Correct, but that was not what I was explaining. I am trying to help you. (and no the offhand is not obtainable yet)

Could you specify which talents whom isn't working properly with this build? And yes, I can explain why certain talents are being over others, would you like be to explain them in the guide or for you?

Benediction for one example, and yes I was asking for a detailed explanation of your full talent build.

Whether it's a 2-H or 1-H you need 8% hit, since you'll still be hitting with a 1-H?... You're base damage comes from white and SoR hits, so you'll be missing out on a lot of damage if you don't have the hit cap.
You are correct that the spell hit cap is 16%, but that isn't possible to obtain since you need to focus on more important attributes.

You sum up your own explanation here:

Just because there is a talent which gives you 6% more damage on a 2-H, that doesn't necessarily mean that a 2-H is better.

actually it does, plus +Hit is everything for viable and sustainable DPS for Raids. I know you agree on this.

How come it's not accurate? Please deliberate.

One example is on Nost, Consecration scales with AP, not SP. (this is why your guide is not accurate for Nost, yet you claim it is

I've read your guide and we can discuss stats if you'd like, just contact me ingame or on PM.

I would very much like that. I am all for helping Paladin players (who are experts or not, skilled or not) obtain the full potential they want out of their interest in Paladins.

True holy is the most viable, but Ret is play around with! so lets see you guys show these naysayers what is possible!
Prot was my Love in TBC and would love to make it viable for Vanilla as well. I just feel Holy is the way to be.

PS - I do think your guide would be VERY useful for Shockadins! Let's Talk Shockadin PvP