Ironfoe on paladin

[diango]

Okay...so what if I get ironfoe (that mace that gives 2 extra attacks) then ---THEN I enchant it with crusader. AND THEEEEEN I cast seal of crusader? Will I win the dps? What if I throw in a HOJ for good measure?

I'll keep a shield ofc to offtank nefarian.

[Dr. Doom]

Okay...so what if I get ironfoe (that mace that gives 2 extra attacks) then ---THEN I enchant it with crusader. AND THEEEEEN I cast seal of crusader? Will I win the dps? What if I throw in a HOJ for good measure?

I'll keep a shield ofc to offtank nefarian.

Don't, just don't.
Paladin DPS already struggles enough with 2handers, yet you want to procure a DPS 1hander even though the class can't dual wield. All the time you're not 'off-tanking', you're doing DPS lower than a moonkin.

If troll thread, good bait tho

[diango]

aw for real? You tested it?

[Theloras]

Ironfoe is our BIS 1handed Ret DPS weapon of choice - but only really once patch 1.9 comes out - see my guide:

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 79#p245245
- scroll down to "SAPHAEL'S 1HAND SOR RETRIBUTION SPEC"

[Heglamore]

It works-- buuuuut..

TLDR: Ironfoe is easy-mode, but weaker damage.


You see, the basis of it is -- in a perfect world -- having an enemy stand in your constantly vengeance stacked consecration. All that Ironfoe is good for is more attacks (one handers swing faster and multiple attacks have more chances to crit) trying to cover gaps in your Vengeance.

Because of the bug with Vengeance (and consecrate) -- you're actually more effective with the two-hander if you WAIT until you actually get a crit, before you consecrate again (so long as you have over a 33% crit chance).

EXAMPLE:
- You consecrate with 3 seconds left on vengeance: Your entire consecrate is Vengeance boosted, even if Vengeance falls off while Consecrate is up.
- You consecrate while vengeance is down. 1 second after you consecrate, you crit, gaining vengeance: Your consecrate is still 15% weaker, because vengeance only stacks -when- you crit.

In a world where you spam consecrate 100% of the time.. ironfoe is better DPS.

In a world where you judiciously use consecrate ONLY while Vengeance is up (AKA: Don't be a mongoloid): You will do more DPS with a two-hander every single time so long as you don't waste your consecrate when your next swings are likely to crit anyways.

It's idiodic things like Ironfoe ret paladins that are what make it so difficult for people to take ret seriously:

Even ret paladins agree we do lower DPS: But even people who are dedicated to it often aren't as well informed as the other classes. Partially because mechanics on Nostalrius do not work properly.

So? Because of the bug: You have to be smarter while DPSing. Don't Ironfoe just so you can spam consecrate. You'll do more damage with an Unstoppable Force and actually paying attention to when you should and shouldn't consecrate.

If you do this, you'll notice a significant damage boost -over- the spamming Ironfoe.



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Examples of Consecrate bug:
- Consecrate is bugged in like 18 different ways, and regardless of what wowwiki was edited to say (about consecrate doesn't scale with AP) -- if you look at the WoW Wiki site? It was edited to include that WELL AFTER WoTLK came out.. and the same note about consecration CANNOT be found on the Blizzard website's patch notes list. SO STOP LINKING A COMMUNITY WIKI THAT EVEN I CAN EDIT TO INCLUDE SMILEY FACES.
- Consecration doesn't adjust it's damage when you crit and gain vengeance if you crit after Consecration was already placed. Each tick of consecration is supposed to be it's own attack (as is each tick of ANY DoT or AoE for purposes of proper Vanilla mechanics. Refeshing all your DOT's right before the end of Zandalarian Hero Charm should not give you 15 more seconds of extended damage bonus)
- Examples of this behavior can be seen by watching two famous paladin videos: Zalgradis PvP 3 and Jamaz: Fist of The Heavens (filmed before the blue PvP set had spell damage on it since it used to only be +healing) Both of these characters, with vastly different gear -before- Forbearance was even added to the game... do the exact same damage, tick for tick with consecrate unless Vengeance is up.

But you don't even have to look at famous ones:
Look at ANY PvP video of ANY Paladin consecrating that doesn't include HD or wide-screen (these didn't exist back then) and you'll see the consecrate numbers are flat, and equal to the base damage of the rank of consecrate the paladin is doing.

Even Paladins in full AQ40 ret gear with Betrayer of Humanity, Ashkandi, or Dark Edge of Insanity can be seen doing significantly weaker damage with their max rank consecrate then no0b ret paladins on Nostalrius do with Rank 1 Consecrate.

[SuperomegaOP]

I thought i heard awhile ago that ironfoe is best if you use seal of the righteousness with spell damage gear and a high SP off hand. With hand of justice+ironfoe, i'd imagine you'd proc righteousness very often and do decent damage with that set up.

[JCarrill0]

Okay...so what if I get ironfoe (that mace that gives 2 extra attacks) then ---THEN I enchant it with crusader. AND THEEEEEN I cast seal of crusader? Will I win the dps? What if I throw in a HOJ for good measure?

I'll keep a shield ofc to offtank nefarian.

Ironfoe is awesome if you can get one. Best of luck on your quest!

[smilkovpetko]

if you are up to offtank neffarian with this , put some spell damage ench in it and use spell damage consumes +
trinket with spell damage + shoulders ench spell damage.

this will bring you on top of threats to neffarian with only jotc and sor . (so you will be 2nd tank).

[SuperomegaOP]

EXAMPLE:
- You consecrate with 3 seconds left on vengeance: Your entire consecrate is Vengeance boosted, even if Vengeance falls off while Consecrate is up.
- You consecrate while vengeance is down. 1 second after you consecrate, you crit, gaining vengeance: Your consecrate is still 15% weaker, because vengeance only stacks -when- you
------------------------
Examples of Consecrate bug:
- Consecration doesn't adjust it's damage when you crit and gain vengeance if you crit after Consecration was already placed. Each tick of consecration is supposed to be it's own attack (as is each tick of ANY DoT or AoE for purposes of proper Vanilla mechanics. Refeshing all your DOT's right before the end of Zandalarian Hero Charm should not give you 15 more seconds of extended damage bonus.

What you have just explained is an age old mechanic called snapshotting that has been in the game since tbc/wrath. Regardless if was or wasn't in vanilla, ironfoe paladins shouldn't even have to snapshot with vengeance because an ironfoe paladin that is geared correctly should always crit at least once every 8 seconds with no problems. White swings+SoR+JoR+ironfoe/hand of justice all have a chance to crit and activate vengeance meaning in an average(not even perfect) world your consecrations should always land with a fully buffed vengeance proc activated.

Once you get even a small amount of crit the question goes from "are you able to keep vengeance stacks up?" to "how fast can you accumulate them at the start of a fight to min/max your inital dps."