Tanking @ 60 - Need Help

[TheFishyOne]

So last night, I finally dinged 60. 15min later, I'm the newest member of <Force>, and am OTing in UBRS.

Naturally, it didn't go too well. So I decided to try to remedy my gear situation by running DM west. I've noticed that when I try to run anything higher than DM East, I am constantly oom, have to drink after every pull, and my threat humps. Until a few days ago, my Rank 1 Consc did ~50 dmg a tic. Now, it barely does 35.

DPS is often VERY trigger happy, and Rogues LOVE opening with Cheap Shot, sometimes before the mob even gets to me. Not to say it's the DPS's fault; this stuff CAN be Pallytanked, I am simply failing at it.

One thing I realized I have to do differently is mark targets for DPS and cc. That said, I don't wanna have to drink after every pull. Before I would use Rank 1 Consc + SoW/JoW to do this, but Rank 1 Consc automagically got gimp in the past couple of days, and stuff is dying quite quickly.

Basically, what can I do to make Consc hit harder right now, and how do I keep from having to drink after every pull? Is now the time to start popping mana pots like candy? Theloras claimed his R1 Consc hits twice as hard as mine does. I don't doubt it, but how can I duplicate it?

Many thanks in advance!

P.S. I am aware that SOME of you feel I should respec Holy and l2heal. Not gonna happen. Please keep that kind of feedback to yourself.

[smilkovpetko]

dude remember this ?

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 10#p179782

Where me and Duki differ in style is that I always keep 3 ranks of Consc on my hotbar: Rank 1, Rank 3, and Max Rank. Duki only feels the need to use Max Rank. Duki is also more experienced at Vanilla Pallytanking than I, and is good enough at managing his mana that he has main tanked raid bosses without popping mana consumables, didn't lose agro, and didn't go oom. Point is, not ALL of whet works for him may work for you.

Also visit this Topic for you :

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26576

[TheFishyOne]

Yeah, I found that thread after posting this one. How do you believe imp rf, hs, and ret aura are broken.

The reason I downrank is because rank 5 consc eats a fifth of my mana bar. That said, I think I will simply have to start opening with max rank. After reviewing some of your tanking videos, I notice you never spam Consc. Do you have any rules of thumb for when to use Consc, or is it just something I have to get a feel for?

EDIT: My GM is a Prot War and Master Armorsmith. He has offered to make me Thorium Brotherhood armor. My RealmPlayers link is http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... er=Geofram I am 60 now, and have 2 hardened stone bands, plus the 2% dodge pants from UBRS. Any pieces you think I should have him make?

[JCarrill0]

So last night, I finally dinged 60. 15min later, I'm the newest member of <Force>, and am OTing in UBRS.

First of all, Congrats on 60. Second Congrats on OT for UBRS as a Tankadin!

Naturally, it didn't go too well. So I decided to try to remedy my gear situation by running DM west. I've noticed that when I try to run anything higher than DM East, I am constantly oom, have to drink after every pull, and my threat humps. Until a few days ago, my Rank 1 Consc did ~50 dmg a tic. Now, it barely does 35.

UBRS would most definitely be my last place to tank until I had every gear I could. So you took up a challenge which is brave, good job for stepping up. We need people to attempt this stuff and learn from mistakes to help other fellow Tankadins get better.
As for threat issues, I assume your using IMP RF? Droping AOE, and everyone has Salv Correct?

DPS is often VERY trigger happy, and Rogues LOVE opening with Cheap Shot, sometimes before the mob even gets to me. Not to say it's the DPS's fault; this stuff CAN be Pallytanked, I am simply failing at it.

As I always ask people, wait for me to go in and Drop my aoe, after that you can DPS, same thing with a warrior asking for dps to wait for at least one sunder. and there is no substitude for salv on DPS, PERIOD.
it is the DPS fault if they dont watch and manage aggro, not the tanks fault if he isn't given a fair chance.
(Tthat would be like blaming the healer on the tank dying if the tank over pulls. That's not how it works.)

One thing I realized I have to do differently is mark targets for DPS and cc. That said, I don't wanna have to drink after every pull. Before I would use Rank 1 Consc + SoW/JoW to do this, but Rank 1 Consc automagically got gimp in the past couple of days, and stuff is dying quite quickly.

The only way to get better Mana management is consumablkes and better gear, there si no way aroiund thsi for a Tankadin. Even in raids, consumables is your lifeline for paladin tanking, without it there is no point to raid. You'll waste your time and the raids time by not coming prepared.
For dungeons, (which is what we are talking about) I hardly ever used consumables for places like Scholo/Strat/BRD/LBRS. DM was a bit different, especially DM N. I brought all standard tank buffs, (keep in mind, for me I was already using full deathbone since it was 1.12.1 itemization, but this is 1.6 which I imagine is a lot harder. In Retail vanilla i was always Holy.)

Basically, what can I do to make Consc hit harder right now, and how do I keep from having to drink after every pull? Is now the time to start popping mana pots like candy? Theloras claimed his R1 Consc hits twice as hard as mine does. I don't doubt it, but how can I duplicate it?

Stack more AP if you want higher aoe, but by doing more dmg, your avoidance must come down, I don't recommend this. as for mana per 5, and drinking less. Goodluck, unless you plan to farm consumables for 5 man tanking like you would raids, I would just say "Sorry guys I gotta drink, mage 55 water please!"
keep in mind I also only did 5 man guild runs, I wouldn't take the wasted effort for pugging a harder 5-man, too many trolls and naysayers to efficiently get what you need, especially when people might just steal your stuff anyways.

Many thanks in advance!

I may not offer the best advice, I can only offer my opinions, do what works out for ya best in YOUR best interest

P.S. I am aware that SOME of you feel I should respec Holy and l2heal. Not gonna happen. Please keep that kind of feedback to yourself.

No way man, keep the Pally Tank dream alive, TANKADIN FTW

Yeah, I found that thread after posting this one. How do you believe imp rf, hs, and ret aura are broken.

I would like to know this as well.

The reason I downrank is because rank 5 consc eats a fifth of my mana bar. That said, I think I will simply have to start opening with max rank. After reviewing some of your tanking videos, I notice you never spam Consc. Do you have any rules of thumb for when to use Consc, or is it just something I have to get a feel for?

See for me I use Max rank too, then downrank for mana saving, but I don't normally have issues with people pulling threat so much because I expect people to know I'm a tankadin and not go crazy. I normally set some ground rules as a tankadin to the party before we start and most of the time it works out just fine with little to NO issues.

EDIT: My GM is a Prot War and Master Armorsmith. He has offered to make me Thorium Brotherhood armor. My RealmPlayers link is http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... er=Geofram I am 60 now, and have 2 hardened stone bands, plus the 2% dodge pants from UBRS. Any pieces you think I should have him make?

Check out my Tankadin gear guide and scroll down to the bottom of the OP, I have some secondary gear you might consider.

[TheFishyOne]

Thanks for the advice, JC! Yeah, I saw that part of your guideyou mentioned, but not until AFTER I vendored my belt from Incendious! #PallyTears

[smilkovpetko]

I didn't said that is bugged , but i said i assume about RF,RA,HS .

Except the assumptions about that.
(just tested and assumptions are wrong) they work correct .

Still This is not properly working:

The previous (sor and consecration) bug is real .

I agree with JC that you need good gear for UBRS , problem for aggro is not related toward your gear (even in that gear) you should have no problems with that.

Problem is the Bugs i already mention : SoR is completely wiped out and dump to the ground (bugged like hell) , Consecration is also wiped out (when full debuff limits are taken or multiply consecrations) Bugged . (the reasons why your aggro is bad) .

About SoW/JoW and Max rank Consecration = my opinion remain valid . You would not have Mana issue if everyone takes your Salvation and Aggro will remain good . (depend on situation) .

But i personally treat UBRS same as any 5 Man Dungeon .

Raids for me are 20+ People that have some different but not far from this story .


Sorry for my bad English i hope you understand me.

[Lexi]

Yeah, I found that thread after posting this one. How do you believe imp rf, hs, and ret aura are broken.

The reason I downrank is because rank 5 consc eats a fifth of my mana bar. That said, I think I will simply have to start opening with max rank. After reviewing some of your tanking videos, I notice you never spam Consc. Do you have any rules of thumb for when to use Consc, or is it just something I have to get a feel for?

EDIT: My GM is a Prot War and Master Armorsmith. He has offered to make me Thorium Brotherhood armor. My RealmPlayers link is http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... er=Geofram I am 60 now, and have 2 hardened stone bands, plus the 2% dodge pants from UBRS. Any pieces you think I should have him make?

Here is the thing I think you're not understanding. I will quote my post from the Paladin Tanking Videos (all nub dungeons which again do not reflect the issues with Prot Paladins).

TheFishyOne,

That's what I'm trying to say While I find your story hard to believe, that's really awesome!

What you listed is what I used to do, when tanking was easy and comfortable. That fury warrior with glowing weapons? was either 1) hardcorely holding back so cheers to him 2) watching a movie.

What do you do when you're silenced? What do you do when you're tanking Rattlegore?

Thanks!

The reason my tone is a bit off is because I was frusterated. I had just got done with DM W and it was a nightmare. Constantly oom, there are threat issues, etc. It was other dungeons too. The only ones I had fun and success in were BRD/Strat UD (easy ones). I respec'd out of prot. Smilo knows a lot of info but he is really pushing Prot Paladins as being viable but until he shows us the 60 dungeons (DM, Strat Living, Scholomance, UBRS, etc.) it's not worth its weight in salt. I'd say a big number of Paladins leveled up tanking dungeons. So I don't know what he's really trying to prove or show us but (Don't hate on me i think JCar said somethig similar )

The whole consecration thing is dumb imo too. I had all 5 ranks of Consecrate on my bars...this doesn't get anything done. You need to use the highest rank to get/hold threat. And let me tell you, it's not 1,2,3,or 4 unless you're running Zul'Farrak (or have a boss +spell dmg weapon). So yeah I digress

Anyways, the struggle is real. And even if you do you research, to be worth your weight in a raid group you should be using 200g worth of consumables which is more work than its worth.

And some advice, do not try to model your level 60 tanking around those videos. If you leveled up tanking dungeons than you should already know it nothing like those videos lol. You can't get away with it what is done those tanking videos. in 60 dungeons, it's not going to cut it i'm afraid D:

But, best of luck to you!

[TheFishyOne]

Well guys, thanks to (much) help from Duki and JC, my guild brought me back to UBRS, and I think I can safely say that I am one of the newest 60s ever to successfully (and meaningfully) OT in that place. Cheers to you both!

Lexi, I'm sorry to hear of your struggle. The struggle IS real, let me tell you. And actually, Duki's videos were a PERFECT model of low level Pallytanking, but yes, after DM East when you get to the level 60 5-mans, you do need to change up your tactics a bit.

First off, yes and no about Max rank Consc; Max Rank is (often) needed to secure initial threat, but once you have it, you can begin dialing down a bit to save mana. Having SotC up for your initial Consc makes it hit quite a bit harder per tick, as well. It's not JUST Consc you should keep up, tho. With Imp RF, each point of damage your HS reflects deals 2.28 threat; that means that with Rank 3 HS, each block deals 296.4 threat to the target you blocked, and that's before BoSanc (another 66.5) and Ret Aura (another 38), for a total of 400.9 single target threat every time you block with HS up. Having Wizard Oil on your weapon helps too, as does JotC (for single targets). Finally, marking targets helps IMMENSELY in level 60 5-mans, so make sure someone is doing it.

Oh, and I'm not familiar with the Rattlegore fight, but if I'm silenced and am in need of aggro, I pop Rank 1 DP to clear it. I have an addon installed that detects and removes it almost immediately. In fact, I had to use it no fewer than 2 times earlier today while tanking my first successful UD Strat, and I didn't lose aggro either time. That is what I do when I'm silenced, so now you can stop wondering! =)

[smilkovpetko]

hat means that with Rank 3 HS, each block deals 296.4 threat

strange because i did this threat with rank 2 HS.

probably bugged?

[Lexi]

Glad to hear some success in UBRS

That place is forgiving though, lots of melee which is great (i.e. perfect) for paladin tanking. Gouges must of be handled by the war/druid tanks.

Rattlegore doesn't silence, and I posted in other thread but I had thought Rattle's Knock cleared tanks aggro. If not them disregard

Best of luck going forward and grats on a finding a home that'll support Paly tanking. Far and inbetween!