How will Ret Pallies justify their raid spot?

[smilkovpetko]

I'm not so much interested in how things work currently but rather how they are supposed to be working, which is for instance why the attack power scaling on consecration is bothering me.

My apologies if I got you wrong now Duki but isn't Seal of Command supposed to scale with 29% of + holy spell bonuses, and not 100%

it should be 29% , but as i said it still doesn't work like retail or even close , neither doing even close damage like retail.

Reason: Holy Resistance , which affect it's Partial resist extremely high and it is not related toward how it suppose to be "glancing blow rule" .

Holy Resistance itself nerf this ability too much and causes it's damage so low , it's crits so low , it's judgement damage so low.

Holy damage coefficient doesn't cover this nerf at all ,neither close to it , especially when Sanctity aura is not affected by the seal itself , the delay for vengeance benefit , double proc by items etc .

Just example with Paladin from Retail and it's Seal of Command (which it's own partial resists follow "Glancing Blow rule" instead "partial resist" nostalrius rule that follows "holy resistance" .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovhRqAxnXqg

(this guy didn't even use or bother using Consecration , neither he is hit capped).
Gear used = Everything under BWL.

[SaucyKnave]

I'm a new player on Nostalrius and I've been reading through these Paladin forums for a while now trying to get advice on rotations, avoiding bugs, etc. I've had to spend so much time sifting through all the misinformation and bickering here. It's extremely discouraging to spend hours reading guides on these forums, only to spend more hours reviewing actual top raiding guild runs and realize everything I just read is useless for competitive raiding.

Can we just rely on RaidStats instead of theorycrafting BS? If you have a better way to play the class, get in a respectable raiding guild and post actual data. Otherwise, stop lying to people like me and misleading us away from finding actually competitive information.

I'd also like to say KillerDuki seems outright malicious with how much he harasses devs on the bugtracker to change game mechanics. He argues with the devs even when they put significant time into going through all of his claims, only to find out that all of his links are misleading and often not applicable. The bugtracker is already flooded enough, give those guys a break so they can fix actual bugs....

[Theloras]

I'm not so much interested in how things work currently but rather how they are supposed to be working, which is for instance why the attack power scaling on consecration is bothering me.

My apologies if I got you wrong now Duki but isn't Seal of Command supposed to scale with 29% of + holy spell bonuses, and not 100%

That's what every single one of us wants...actual Blizzlike spells/talents/abilities so that we can dispel once and for all the LOLRET mentality that is out there once and for all.

The problem however is that the core Mangoes code on which every single private vanilla server is based on was written by fucking buffoons who don't have the first clue as to how Paladins are supposed to work in the first place, hence the litany of bugs:

Retribution Paladin bugs here on Nostalrius
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=25556

[Theloras]

I'm a new player on Nostalrius and I've been reading through these Paladin forums for a while now trying to get advice on rotations, avoiding bugs, etc. I've had to spend so much time sifting through all the misinformation and bickering here. It's extremely discouraging to spend hours reading guides on these forums, only to spend more hours reviewing actual top raiding guild runs and realize everything I just read is useless for competitive raiding.

Can we just rely on RaidStats instead of theorycrafting BS? If you have a better way to play the class, get in a respectable raiding guild and post actual data. Otherwise, stop lying to people like me and misleading us away from finding actually competitive information.

I'd also like to say KillerDuki seems outright malicious with how much he harasses devs on the bugtracker to change game mechanics. He argues with the devs even when they put significant time into going through all of his claims, only to find out that all of his links are misleading and often not applicable. The bugtracker is already flooded enough, give those guys a break so they can fix actual bugs....

LOLWUT?

You can thank people like Holystrike for not knowing proper Paladin abilities and spells for putting out retarded bug reports:

Consecration AP scaling
holystrike (holy_strike)8 months ago
As quoted directly from Blizzard WoW Patch Burning Crusade Patch 2.0.1 "(05-Dec-2006): Consecration doesn't scale with attack power anymore."
It scaled with ap throughout the entire existance of vanilla and this was only removed during the burning crusade
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=418

Killerduki is one of the few people who actually knows how proper Paladin Vanilla mechanics are supposed to operate.

[Softarunt]

Now I haven't checked up on this myself, but shouldn't SoC procs simply be resolved as any other special melee attack (a.k.a yellow hit). Meaning yeah they miss, get parried and dodged (not sure about blocked, as at least elemental damage is unblockable, but idk about holy). Being a yellow hit though, it shouldn't be subject to glancing blows as you know, this is a thing for white hits.

Magic damage is mitigated by resistances, rather than armor, but there is no such thing as holy resistance. What about level-based resists?

Honestly, I can understand if the devs don't understand what to do because Duki doesn't always present his arguments in the most clear manner

[smilkovpetko]

I'm a new player on Nostalrius and I've been reading through these Paladin forums for a while now trying to get advice on rotations, avoiding bugs, etc. I've had to spend so much time sifting through all the misinformation and bickering here. It's extremely discouraging to spend hours reading guides on these forums, only to spend more hours reviewing actual top raiding guild runs and realize everything I just read is useless for competitive raiding.

Can we just rely on RaidStats instead of theorycrafting BS? If you have a better way to play the class, get in a respectable raiding guild and post actual data. Otherwise, stop lying to people like me and misleading us away from finding actually competitive information.

I'd also like to say KillerDuki seems outright malicious with how much he harasses devs on the bugtracker to change game mechanics. He argues with the devs even when they put significant time into going through all of his claims, only to find out that all of his links are misleading and often not applicable. The bugtracker is already flooded enough, give those guys a break so they can fix actual bugs....

Alternate Character of --------- approved .
Reasons:
1- he says that he is "new player"
2- he accuses of misinformation
3- he rely on Raidstats instead Theorycraft
4- he accuses to everyone that attend in Paladin Forum that lie.
5- he point my name when i reported Consecration Bug with Evidence from 2006 Videos and argued with "isvv" regarding why they still keep it as invalid instead confirm when they got 2x Videos from 2006.

anyway if you deny this then you are the person which is well known for the 5 reasons mentioned 100%.

I will grant your wish from Server where my DPS scale much lower than Nostalrius and Spell Damage didn't work with my SoC and JoC at all , neither Consecration did scale with AP.

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... ssLimit=Pa

430 Seconds fight , where NPC mana burns you at P1 - which leads you to "OOM" and your Consecration comes to the point of being Useless , P3 which last extremely short AoE and grants you 1% damage total.

In 1 word P1+P3 = 29% trash Damage (where P1 is not AoE friendly due to Mana burn and adds disappear shortly, where P3 gives you Total 1% of your overall Damage from AoE).
71% = Boss damage.
Boss that "you should not DPS" as Melee when Paladin Class Call.
Enough said.

- the raidstat log includes all servers that exist in 1 Ranking list together -

[Theloras]

Now I haven't checked up on this myself, but shouldn't SoC procs simply be resolved as any other special melee attack (a.k.a yellow hit). Meaning yeah they miss, get parried and dodged (not sure about blocked, as at least elemental damage is unblockable, but idk about holy). Being a yellow hit though, it shouldn't be subject to glancing blows as you know, this is a thing for white hits.

Magic damage is mitigated by resistances, rather than armor, but there is no such thing as holy resistance. What about level-based resists?

Honestly, I can understand if the devs don't understand what to do because Duki doesn't always present his arguments in the most clear manner

The reason why things are so messed up for Paladins here on Nostalrius is one of the following:

1. The Devs are lazy
2. The Devs are incompetent
3. The Devs have much larger big picture issues to spend their time on (aka latency/lag)

My money is on #3 - it's got nothing to do with Duki not being able to present his arguments properly.

PS This isn't me $hitting on Nost or the Devs working here - merely stating the obvious that they have bigger fish to fry.

[smilkovpetko]

Now I haven't checked up on this myself, but shouldn't SoC procs simply be resolved as any other special melee attack (a.k.a yellow hit). Meaning yeah they miss, get parried and dodged (not sure about blocked, as at least elemental damage is unblockable, but idk about holy). Being a yellow hit though, it shouldn't be subject to glancing blows as you know, this is a thing for white hits.

Magic damage is mitigated by resistances, rather than armor, but there is no such thing as holy resistance. What about level-based resists?

Honestly, I can understand if the devs don't understand what to do because Duki doesn't always present his arguments in the most clear manner

Only because this ability work as "Special Ability" instead "Glancing Blow" Blizzard have made it to work as "Partial Resist" which should work exactly the same as "Glancing Blow" .

Since Holy Resistance didn't exist at all as stat , there was some "modifications" on certain Abilities such as "partial resists" to follow "glancing blows" rules on SoC / JoC . And Full Resist on JoC instead dodge/parry/block/miss.

Level based Resistance suppose to work only for "spell damage" and not "physical damage" abilities which should work only on Exorcism (instant spells partial resist rule) , Holy Shock (instant spells partial resist rule) , Judgement of Righteousness (instant spells partial resist rule) , Smite and Holy Fire (casting spells partial resist rule) .

Special Ability such as Seal of Command,Judgement of Command,Hammer of Wrath should not be affected by "Level resistance" since it work in way of "physical abilities".

Only Seal of Command and Judgement of Command should be affected by "partial resist" which follow only and only "Glancing Blows" rule regardless if target is "high resistant" or not (example chromaggus) ,

Chromaggus resistance should not be resistant toward following Abilities :
-Seal of Command
-Judgement of Command
-Consecration
-Seal of Righteousness
-Retribution Aura
-Holy Shield
-Blessing of Sanctuary
-Hammer of Wrath

Reason : none of those apply as "direct instant spells or casting spells" rule.

[Softarunt]

One example: just now duki was complaining at partial resists, without really explaining what the issue is.

In fact, I just watched the golemagg movie he linked himself, and the damage reduction both on Seal and Judgement of Command are always multiplicatives of 25%, just as partial resists are, NOT GLANCING BLOWS.

So yeah, what you see in that youtube video is level-based partial resists happening. Seal of Command doesn't do glancing blows because it's a special attack

[Theloras]

^^^What Duki said^^^

Exorcism and Priest Holy school castable spells such as Holy Fire and Smite are subject to standard spell hit resistances whereas Paladin melee Holy school attacks should not be.

Unfortunately, here on Nostalrius they are

To add insult to injury, Holy Resistance itself as a stand alone stat is also present on all NPCs (including bosses in each of the 40man raid instances - MC BWL ZG), making partial resists the norm as well:

Holy Resistance is on trash and bosses in BWL
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=2871

This is in clear violation of Blizzard removing Holy Resistance from the game completely back in Beta:

Holy resistance does not currently exist as a visible or collectible statistic in World of Warcraft. It only exists against PvE targets of a higher level. The sole means to prevent holy damage are limited to effects that affect all spells, like reduction (e.g. potions) and immunity (e.g. Divine Intervention). However Holy Resistance did exist during the World of Warcraft beta in patch 0.7.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Holy_resistance

Holy Resistance has been replaced with Arcane Resistance.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_0.9

Chromatic Gauntlets no longer has a listed Holy Resistance bonus, since there is no actual Holy Resistance.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.8.0