Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

[smilkovpetko]

I wouldn't mind if paladins got a bit better damage than retail vanilla. That would be swell. But I have to be intellectually honest when it comes to these things.

The guys who did all the theory crafting back then on how all the paladin abilities scaled didn't just miss that Consecration etc got 10% extra damage from 1hws. I just cannot believe that. When they did all their tests confirming and reconfirming the spell power scaling not one person noted that, hey, if I have 1hws then it scales 36% with spell power rather than 33% better tell someone. It sure doesn't sound reasonable to me. Unfortunately.

Well you have WoWiki Theory Crafting that clearly included this too .

And no it will not get better than Vanilla Retail . It will be exactly the same .

The person was clear by telling that "the ability" is not how everyone seems to . (including the theory crafters). And gave the example with SoR .

This clearly mean that everyone did avoid to calculate into "abilities" .

The Poster is at 1.12 Patch apparently (you can see people are expecting TBC to release judging the comments) .

This mean that nobody before had knowledge regarding this and TBC was released pretty soon after the poster that gave not enough time for "theory crafters" to talk regarding this.

After all no matter how much you disagree with me . Thank you for this Solid Proof that i was searching over 6 months since i started to play Privacy server. (where my knowledge coming from retail vanilla) .

[Tinkertown]

July 23, 2007

That is the date on the wowwiki page you linked to. That is in TBC. This is the latest wowwiki from vanilla I could find: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Hande ... did=190947

If you have another link, please provide it.

[smilkovpetko]

July 23, 2007

That is the date on the wowwiki page you linked to. That is in TBC. This is the latest wowwiki from vanilla I could find: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Hande ... did=190947

If you have another link, please provide it.

No it is not TBC . TBC was 5% and not 10% !!! . Vanilla had 5 ranks 10% , TBC had 5 ranks 5% , Wotlk had 3 ranks 10% .

This is prove that the link i gave shows with 10% , 5 ranks .

you don't like when something is bugged and should be fixed / improved in order to be proper and you like when something should be reduced right ????

Even the Lich King doesn't say all :



One-Handed Weapon Specialization now increases damage by 3/7/10%.

but still increases all damage.

You can't deny the evidence that "yourself" gave. And i guess reading your arguing that you regret for that.

[Tinkertown]

you don't like when something is bugged and should be fixed / improved in order to be proper and you like when something should be reduced right ????

No. I'm just looking at the evidence. If vanilla reality has an anti-Paladin bias, that's not my fault.

Did you miss that I digged up that Seal of Righteousness should do more damage? That's an increase.

If I got to decide I'd like if they gave paladins a taunt, but since that wouldn't be Blizzlike it will not happen here. I'm just honestly reporting the sources, can you say the same?

And I'm not denying the evidence. It is you who are misrepresenting it, by saying that since SoR benefitted it follows that everything benefitted. It just isn't so.

[smilkovpetko]

you don't like when something is bugged and should be fixed / improved in order to be proper and you like when something should be reduced right ????

No. I'm just looking at the evidence.

Did you miss that I digged up that Seal of Righteousness should do more damage? That's an increase.

If I got to decide I'd like if they gave paladins a taunt, but since that wouldn't be Blizzlike it will not happen here. I'm just honestly reporting the sources, can you say the same?

And I'm not denying the evidence. It is you who are misrepresenting it, by saying that since SoR benefitted it follows that everything benefitted. It just isn't so.

See i don't request Taunts etc , i never did because it is not vanilla . Everything i say is vanilla .

SoR is already reported how it should work .

And yes it was example but one-handed always been increasing everything by 10%

Now you request for 2nd time links .

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Hande ... did=767948

Vanilla Version ^

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Hande ... did=768020

TBC Version ^

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Hande ... id=1962854

WotLK Version ^


See the % of Damage Increase and the Note under.

Telling you don't argue regarding this , because evidences are more reliable than arguing . Here i talk with Evidences , (which major one you gave to confirm all my evidences) by posting that dude from 2006.

[Tinkertown]

How on gods green earth can you point to a mid-2007 post and call it "vanilla"? Oh, lol. I just realized. The first link is posted just 1 hour before the second. He just got the percentages wrong. They are both about the TBC version, he even says so in the edit comment.

[smilkovpetko]

How on gods green earth can you point to a mid-2007 post and call it "vanilla"? Oh, lol. I just realized. The first link is posted just 1 hour before the second. He just got the percentages wrong. They are both about the TBC version.

See now you argue the evidences by yourself ....

TBC or NOT..

Nowhere is saying that should increase SOR damage but the proof you gave back at 2006 it says that it does!.

SOR is not White Swings. It is Holy Damage (ability) affected by Spell Damage,Weapon Speed .

There is no Patch note,neither description that says "increases sor damage" ...
Even tooltip doesn't specify "melee swings" , it only says Damage (nothing regarding sor or white swings) while using 1h Melee Weapon .

[Tinkertown]

Ok, I've had enough of this.

Anyone who looks at this objectively must by now see the simple truth that there is no contemporary evidence at all suggesting that One-Handed Weapon Specialization scaled with anything other than Weapon Damage and damage added to weapon swings.

I rest my case.

[smilkovpetko]

Ok, I've had enough of this.

Anyone who looks at this objectively must by now see the simple truth that there is no contemporary evidence at all suggesting that One-Handed Weapon Specialization scaled with anything other than Weapon Damage and damage added to weapon swings.

I rest my case.

Now you are adding "own description" damage added to weapon swings?

Nowhere says that .

The evidences i posted all are telling that it add all damage while using 1 hand .

[Theloras]

The guys who did all the theory crafting back then on how all the paladin abilities scaled didn't just miss that Consecration etc got 10% extra damage from 1hws. I just cannot believe that.

It can and did in fact happen so it is possible here as well.

Let me give you an example of what was there the entire time from patch 1.11 onwards but wasn't discovered until midway through TBC (basically well over a year):

Seal Twisting with Seal of Command

"Since Patch 1.11, Seal of Command proc will have approximately 0.5 second delay before the animation begins and the Holy damage is incurred, instead of having the proc occur instantly with the swing of the attack. This is considered a good change, since if the normal swing is a critical strike and Vengeance is triggered, the Seal of Command proc will be affected by the buff."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_Command_(old)?oldid=1432430

http://web.archive.org/web/200807062323 ... eal-twist/

When playing on Peenix, I was able to prove without a shadow of a doubt that Seal Twisting was in fact possible back on retail because I wrote up a bug report there asking the Devs to implement the 0.5 second delay to Seal of Command.

By only adding the delay and making no other changes, lo and behold I was able to generate proper Seal Twisting with Seal of Command + Seal of the Crusader or Seal of Justice:

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/ass ... abf1bc.jpg

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/ass ... 56553f.jpg

So it is in fact possible that things were missed even when they were there in plain sight the entire time - the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - so everyone needs to be careful when jumping to conclusions.

Likewise, I have made the dev here on Nostalrius aware that Seal of Command needs the 0.5 second delay here as well:

https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1289

TLDR - I myself never tanked in retail vanilla so I never had the 1-handed specialization talent - so I have no firsthand experience/knowledge on how it functioned but having a healthy skepticism is a good thing when approaching things like this for the simple fact that all of our talents/spells/abilities are broken on private servers