Ret Pve Tips/Guide

[Theloras]

@Smiter - now this is what I've been waiting for all this time - you made daddy proud!!!

#1 DPS on this entire guild Nefarian encounter:
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 61&Fight=7

I'm oh so curious as to what Arkade had to say when that SWS parse got linked afterwards...

[Holystrike]

Lol I dont think you understand how averages work...

my averaged dps is a combination of my lowest dps, I.e when i was lohing the tank, judging wisdom, tanking myself and offhealing...

Its pretty easy to compare my best scores when i dps to yours... So lets break down this egotistical paladins dps.

You can warp the statistics all you want but at the end of the day numbers dont lie.

BWL Best Boss Performances
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/BossL ... yer=Smiter
Razorgore the Untamed Smiter(148.0) Holystrike(280.6)
Vaelastrasz the Corrupt Smiter(459.3) Holystrike(529.9)
Broodlord Lashlayer Smiter(352.5) Holystrike(491.6)
Firemaw Smiter(339.7) Holystrike(435.6)
Ebonroc Smiter(419.9) Holystrike(524.4)
Flamegor Smiter(398.4) Holystrike(486.2)
Chromaggus Smiter(195.0) Holystrike(185.4)
Nefarian Smiter(368.1) Holystrike(264.8)

So lets analyse these scores, smiter was destroyed on every single fight except chromaggus and nefarian.

The only 2 fights where the bosses or mobs are bugged within the encounter are ridiculously resistant to holy damage.

Not only is his dps lower on every single fight which isnt bugged its lower by alot, over 100 dps on average and on some fights he litterally does half the damage.

Why? bug abusing seal of crusader is stupid and anyone doing it or speccing their gear that way dont know how to play paladin... I sincerely hope every paladin doing it is permanently banned from the server.

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Just don't forget, the battle there is between you and holystrike , where there is no other retribution paladin which is doing the theory as holystrike and raiding in bwl , i believe talesavo and the other paladin would do much higher , but they never been there as retribution paladin .

Ok lets analyse this:

Talesavo has never raided bwl so the most relevant fight to compare single target dps for him would be Golemagg
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/BossL ... r=Talesavo
R13 Paladin with Hand of Rag
Golemagg the Incinerator Talesavo(619.3)

Compared to my highest dps fight excluding vael for obvious reasons which would be Ebonroc to date
http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... Holystrike
r12 + random epic Paladin with Ashkandi
Ebonroc Holystrike(524.4)

I asked Talesavo about that raid afterwards and was told he was using litterally every buff in the game even greandes (although bosses are immune on this server which sucks )

so a difference between the best geared pally on the server:
full r13 with hand of rag 3.7 speed
and me
r12 random epics and ashkandi 3.5 speed

is 94.9 DPS (Excluding the fact Ebonroc is immune to fire immolation oil and Talesavo used immolation oil)... I would consider that higher then or where my dps should be comparing his gear to my own and knowing that he is a skilled retribution pally

Now lets look at killerduki since hes the one doing the talking

Killerduki outgearing both of us ridiculously
http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/BossL ... Killerduki
on WSG he was a ret paladin with 3/5 t2.5 and 5/8 t2.
Firemaw Killerduki(440.2)

[smilkovpetko]

guys , let chill down and sort this out . theo will post example from my itemization and the shits will stop there .

so everyone will have choice in what they want to choose

ok? done with business.

Nostalrius is bugged so we have to dance with the current bugs.

Last edited by Holystrike on Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:36 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Wow he even edited his old posts to attack me .... and to compare irrelevant bugged server that didn't work with spell damage.

when we talk about relevant content , even with all bugged spells :

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... ssLimit=Pa

Holystrike is not even on the list of Neffarian , even that he have Ashkandi which is far stronger than what i use "draconic maul" and he have Marshal Gloves which boost him 100% of holy dmg and are bis forever compare to bugged not working spell damage abilities i had in peenix.

[Holystrike]

Due to the awesome services which realmplayers provides us now days its impossible to lie about damage or take it out of perspective on private servers anymore so we can always fact check and analyse.

Killerduki in t2.5 and full spell damage gear was pulling less dps on single target fights then me on feenix where ret scripting was somewhat functional in comparison to here where it is not.

And bug abusing warrior paladins are still pulling the worst dps of the retri pool

As proven by both myself and talesavo the only true way to raid retribution is to not bug abuse but to build gear in the only way a paladin should given it is a hybrid class... as a hybrid.

[Theloras]

Holy - I hate to say it but you're kinda going off the deep end here man.

With the bugs and itemization the way they are here on Nostalrius, we have to play the cards we are dealt.

Also as far as comparing your DPS to Duki's toon back on Peenix, Consecration doesn't scale with AP there nor is SoC/JoC scaling at 100% of JotC iirc so that's not a fair comparison.

PS SoC/JoC scaling at 100% of JotC's +Holy dmg bonus is also technically bug abuse as well...

#JustSayin

[Holystrike]

Holy - I hate to say it but you're kinda going off the deep end here man.

With the bugs and itemization the way they are here on Nostalrius, we have to play the cards we are dealt.

Also as far as comparing your DPS to Duki's toon back on Peenix, Consecration doesn't scale with AP there nor is SoC/JoC scaling at 100% of JotC iirc so that's not a fair comparison.

PS SoC/JoC scaling at 100% of JotC's +Holy dmg bonus is also technically bug abuse as well...

#JustSayin

We both know what you just said is ridiculous... at the rate holy damage is resisted on this server ret paladins are weaker then any other version of vanilla ive played... and the amount of bugs related to rets; jocr doesnt begin to offset the damage loss

and can you not pubicly advertise bug abusing on this server please... its bug abusing... deals less dps... and is setting a bad precedent for rets on the server as a result of both

[Theloras]

Holy - I hate to say it but you're kinda going off the deep end here man.

With the bugs and itemization the way they are here on Nostalrius, we have to play the cards we are dealt.

Also as far as comparing your DPS to Duki's toon back on Peenix, Consecration doesn't scale with AP there nor is SoC/JoC scaling at 100% of JotC iirc so that's not a fair comparison.

PS SoC/JoC scaling at 100% of JotC's +Holy dmg bonus is also technically bug abuse as well...

#JustSayin

We both know what you just said is ridiculous... at the rate holy damage is resisted on this server ret paladins are weaker then any other version of vanilla ive played... and the amount of bugs related to rets; jocr doesnt begin to offset the damage loss

and can you not pubicly advertise bug abusing on this server please... its bug abusing... deals less dps... and is setting a bad precedent for rets on the server as a result of both

Until you've stepped into my shoes and dealt with the level of LOLRET forum trolls that have come after not only me BUT MY WIFE AS WELL, I think that I have earned a little bit of respect for everything that I have tried to do for Retribution on private vanilla servers.

If you want to have a constructive, mutually-respectful conversation then fine, but until then you need to go have a time-out.

[smilkovpetko]

Holy - I hate to say it but you're kinda going off the deep end here man.

With the bugs and itemization the way they are here on Nostalrius, we have to play the cards we are dealt.

Also as far as comparing your DPS to Duki's toon back on Peenix, Consecration doesn't scale with AP there nor is SoC/JoC scaling at 100% of JotC iirc so that's not a fair comparison.

PS SoC/JoC scaling at 100% of JotC's +Holy dmg bonus is also technically bug abuse as well...

#JustSayin

We both know what you just said is ridiculous... at the rate holy damage is resisted on this server ret paladins are weaker then any other version of vanilla ive played... and the amount of bugs related to rets; jocr doesnt begin to offset the damage loss

and can you not pubicly advertise bug abusing on this server please... its bug abusing... deals less dps... and is setting a bad precedent for rets on the server as a result of both

i am surprised that someone took shot on me :

let me explain something now , to enlighten all the stuffs and work around .

Consecration :
Currently on Nostalrius scale 33% with Attack Power and 33% with Spell Power (which you can have both stats to fit the maximum damage).
On other Server (will not mention the name) : had static 80 dmg/tick and scale 5% with Spell Power only

Results : Nostalrius you can go beyond 200 easy if you use proper gearing/consumes , Other server will never go more than 120 unless vengeance and tons amount of spell damage .

Seal of Command:
Currently on Nostalrius scale 100% from Holy damage , and scale properly from Spell damage and doesn't work with Sanctity Aura
On other Server (will not mention the name): did scale properly from holy damage (29%) and did not scale from Spell damage and did not work with Sanctity aura .

Results : Nostalrius you can go easy beyond significant numbers compare to other server.

Judgement of Command:
Currently on Nostalrius work with sanctity aura , scale too low from Spell Damage , scale 100% from Holy Damage .
On other Server (will not mention the name): did not scale from spell damage , did not scale from holy damage , did not work with sanctity aura.

Results: Nostalrius you can do magnificent DPS compare to other server.

Holy Resistance:
Both Servers had Holy Resistance , this is not changed and both server have the same Issue.

Are we clear enough here now ?

Nostalrius at very least , on Retribution Paladin part is much better and fixed compare to other server.

I think i explained pretty much the most important factors.

[smilkovpetko]

By the end of the day , i would like just to point out 2 things :

1st - i had 3 pieces from Aq40 , everything else was BWL,MC,ZG Gear and Weapon was Draconic Maul which is by far 3 times worse and lower than Ashkandi that Holystrike is using.

2nd - with all the bugs i have mention and all the lower stuffs i compared here is some screenshots for you:

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 4444_o.jpg

You are welcome now to complain.

and yes :

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... Killerduki

evidence that only 3 items are from Aq40 , everything else is bwl,mc,onyxia and Crap Blue items

Holystrike , unlike me have Ashkandi and Marshal Gloves which are BiS and huge upgrade compare to my Gear , he doesn't exist on the following List of Damage Dealers Retribution as he is just false propaganda specific boss only .

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... ssLimit=Pa

Holystrike doesn't exist on this list .... as True Retribution Paladin can only be Top DPS there on such long fight.

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidO ... Raid=30429

See Holystrike DPS , barely overall bossfights 244 DPS . and on trash he doesn't exist.

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidO ... Raid=10395

See Killerduki DPS , 364 DPS overall Bossfight and on trash TOP DPS (on server where Spell Damage didn't work with our abilities) .

[Holystrike]

@Theo

Lol dude im not going to applogise in reality this is exactly what has happened in this thread:

you told this guy to post on the forums,

he makes a bad and incomplete guide telling everyone to bug abuse and boasting "Im #1! Im #1 Im #1!",
refferences a bad pre-raid bis list

he acts ridiculously arrogant because he flasked in irrelevant content where noone else does and used that as his reference to claim to be the best ret on the server

I posted what he was missing from his consumable list and put his damage in perspective proving it was in reality average or below

He then passively calls me a no-lifer because i farmed my bis and he did not claiming its impossible to hit 3500 mana without pvp epics.

He then says he drops 200G in each raid both BWL and MC, which makes him seem incredibly stupid because he could have farmed his bis easily in that time he was farming and be doing more damage in actual paladin gear

I then list him an easily attainable pre-raid bis set which gives solid crit spell damage 8% hit and 3500 mana, proving him wrong again ( and yes pvp r10 gear is ridiculously easy to get requires like 5 hours of pvp a week and considering hes dropping 200G a raid im pretty damn sure he can afford 5 hours a week to get actal bis)... which he ignores

At which point he then again chimes in saying things like: " Also at that 288dps avg on bosses im 2nd in avg dps for ret pallies in BWL. Beating rets that have full BiS with my 3/4 blue gear. And finally im top ret dps on nef and was top ret dps on chrom til recently" proving he doesnt understand math i.e averages

at which point i broke down his best damage vs my best damage fight by fight demonstrating that on average i do anywhere between 100 more dps up to double his damage.

Im sorry but in this thread in no way has he helped paladins, provided any new information, or demonstrated any outstanding skillsets... all the while trying to swing his ego around while dealing relative to the raiding rets, average damage.

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@Duki
You started this and i intend to finish it.

Just don't forget, the battle there is between you and holystrike , where there is no other retribution paladin which is doing the theory as holystrike and raiding in bwl , i believe talesavo and the other paladin would do much higher , but they never been there as retribution paladin .

1st I proved my damage is equal if not better then Talesavo's considering I am in far worse gear and immolation oil grants up to 100 DPS with flasks and full buffs rolling

2nd Other paladins? I assume you were reffering to yourself?

So I compared your damage to mine to demonstrate that even though you had litterally over 100 more spell damage then me unbuffed other paladins are still pulling less dps in better gear.

if you reread my post it reffered to single target dps because as we both know aoe fights are entirely situational and are not always an accurate reflection of dps output it all depends on how many mobs get stacked.

Crap Blue items

Wtf you have personally told me you intentionally used those items because on feenix they scaled ridiculously well with spell damage which is why you built your gear that way

Draconic Maul which is by far 3 times worse and lower than Ashkandi that Holystrike is using.

wtf you know how to theory craft and you know thats complete bullshit...
Setting aside the fact Draconic Maul has 2% crit on it which is also an uncalcuable damage modifier increase...
Same weapon speed so same application of AP:

Ashkandi DPS: 81.9 || 3.5 speed ||
Draconic Maul: 67.0 || 3.5 speed ||
81.9-67 = 14.9
14.9x3.5 = 52.15
Firemaw Fight Duration: 114 Seconds
114/3.5= 32.57142857142857 Swings
32.57142857142857x52.15
White Damage Damage Difference: 1698.6
Socom:7ppm
52.15/7= 7.45 Round it up to 8... why not
8x52.15= 417.2
Socom + White= 2115.8
2115.8/118 =18.55964912280702

So on that fight there was litterally a 18.5 DPS difference between ashkandi and draconic maul for you regardless of the fact that you built as a spell damage proc ret which means weapons are only a partial function of your damage most of it is a result of spell damage.

Firemaw Killerduki(440.2)+18.55 DPS with Ashkandi = 458.7
Ebonroc Holystrike(524.4)

Lets make up some more numbers to increase your dps, my consecration hits for 140DPS fully buffed (wtf 200???)

Id take a stab and say yours hits for lets say 80 DPS

Firemaw Killerduki(440.2)+18.55 DPS with Ashkandi+60DPS with scaling consecration = 518.7
Ebonroc Holystrike(524.4)

Even if i add 78.55 DPS to your highest single target fight setting asside the fact you are in t2.5 and outgear me like crazy you, had far better working mechanics such as proc-crits activating vengeance and those "blues" scaling amazingly well on feenix you still deal less damage at your best.

And even on aoe fights such as your famous neff DPS record (where you should excell as your entire item build was a heavily based spell damage paladin) you are still doing less damage then i do on single target dps fights...

Finally wwwwwaaaaaayyyy more paladin mechanics are broken on nostalrius then feenix, I have looked through what has fixed there in comparison to here so dont even try to make that comparison lol

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Regardless this thread should be locked it has served its purpose is severely offtopic and is just going to incite drama