Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by stimz » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:43 pm

smilkovpetko wrote:
kegboy123 wrote:calm down you freak. yea i was wrong about judgement of crusader being 220 its only 140 without the talent. so with talents its 161. so right now we get all of that instead of only 29% of that from seal of command proc and all of that instead of 43% for judgement of command. so thats pretty good. our commands hit for like an extra 100+ because of that

once the aura is fixed then its fair when they remove that


i agree that is fair to remove or fix that .

But before that i want Spell Damage to work with Seal/Judgement of Command. + Aura.

Because we gain far more with Spell Damage than this pitty tiny bug that add only maximum 50 dps.

You call me freak but if Warriors had non working Sunders and Taunt they would been even bigger freaks raging about their Abilities.


well you do need like 300+ sp to reach the soc damage were at now, so i cant really say thats a negative bug at this stage of the game
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by smilkovpetko » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:46 pm

stimz wrote:
smilkovpetko wrote:
kegboy123 wrote:calm down you freak. yea i was wrong about judgement of crusader being 220 its only 140 without the talent. so with talents its 161. so right now we get all of that instead of only 29% of that from seal of command proc and all of that instead of 43% for judgement of command. so thats pretty good. our commands hit for like an extra 100+ because of that

once the aura is fixed then its fair when they remove that


i agree that is fair to remove or fix that .

But before that i want Spell Damage to work with Seal/Judgement of Command. + Aura.

Because we gain far more with Spell Damage than this pitty tiny bug that add only maximum 50 dps.

You call me freak but if Warriors had non working Sunders and Taunt they would been even bigger freaks raging about their Abilities.


well you do need like 300+ sp to reach the soc damage were at now, so i cant really say thats a negative bug at this stage of the game


JotC give us Maximum 80 Damage more to Command than it should give. To reach 80 Damage you need Exactly 300 SP . Which you already gain 200 From Consumes and 100 From gear . That the Gear is 1.6 and should be 1.12 (the gamebreaking) .

For the judgement you would need 160 SP that can be reach with single Flask .

Another thing is Sanctity aura that doesn't work and is 10%!.

10% from 800 Damage made by Command is 80 Damage.
Imagine Command crits that would otherwise be multiplied by this Aura. And Judgements with 300 SP in combination with this Aura.

not to mention the Benediction Bug for mana.

Another thing is "how many guilds allow you to use JotC" ?.
How negative is now that Spell damage doesn't work for us where we don't use JotC?!.
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by stimz » Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:47 am

Well in the current state of the server I'm pretty sure a human with edgemasters and 1h sword and maybe maladath would out DPS 2h seal of command with seal of the crusader.
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by smilkovpetko » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:47 am

stimz wrote:Well in the current state of the server I'm pretty sure a human with edgemasters and 1h sword and maybe maladath would out DPS 2h seal of command with seal of the crusader.


that doesn't change the fact that we are broken and destroyed in order to compete with other class at dps.
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by justclassic » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:51 am

I'm curious why would any paladin ever wear sp gear when he could wear ap gear ?

Isn't ap a lot better then sp when compared to each other ?

Anybody care to elaborate (numbers would be great ) ?!
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by smilkovpetko » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:06 pm

justclassic wrote:I'm curious why would any paladin ever wear sp gear when he could wear ap gear ?

Isn't ap a lot better then sp when compared to each other ?

Anybody care to elaborate (numbers would be great ) ?!


DMF,LBRS Trinket , Eye work and scale on SP.

SoC , JoC work and scale on SP and weapon Damage.
Hammer of wraith work and scale on SP.
Exorcism work and scale on SP.

Consecration work and scale on SP.

Why ? because of that.
Sanctity Aura increase that "SP" by 10% too.

I never said that we only need SP , we need Both . SP+AP. which more important is to have them both together with INT and AGI .
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by justclassic » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:19 pm

smilkovpetko wrote:
justclassic wrote:I'm curious why would any paladin ever wear sp gear when he could wear ap gear ?

Isn't ap a lot better then sp when compared to each other ?

Anybody care to elaborate (numbers would be great ) ?!


DMF,LBRS Trinket , Eye work and scale on SP.

SoC , JoC work and scale on SP and weapon Damage.
Hammer of wraith work and scale on SP.
Exorcism work and scale on SP.

Consecration work and scale on SP.

Why ? because of that.
Sanctity Aura increase that "SP" by 10% too.

I never said that we only need SP , we need Both . SP+AP. which more important is to have them both together with INT and AGI .


DMF ?
Lbrs trinket ?
Eye ?

Aren't most of paladins dmg Whitehits and seal of Command dmg which both scale with ap ?

Also the aura also increases commands dmg part which scales with ap.

Exorcism can't really be used until naxx and hammer + consecration currently scale with ap even though that might be bugged.
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by smilkovpetko » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:55 pm

justclassic wrote:DMF ?
Lbrs trinket ?
Eye ?

Aren't most of paladins dmg Whitehits and seal of Command dmg which both scale with ap ?

Also the aura also increases commands dmg part which scales with ap.

Exorcism can't really be used until naxx and hammer + consecration currently scale with ap even though that might be bugged.



Aren't most of paladins dmg Whitehits and seal of Command dmg which both scale with ap ?

In order to get more DPS we use slower and stronger 2h Weapon . For that case White Swings become lower priority since the speed of the weapon and glancing blows reduce that damage lot.

Command does scale with ap but it scale much more with SP .
Judgement of Command is far more important and useful if you use it at Max Rank. (this scale lot with SP).

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... Killerduki

This is how Retribution Paladin Gear should look like in PVE with proper PVE spec .

(i don't talk about PVP or Reckbomb) which are nich for PVE unless tricks and cheats.
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by kegboy123 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:05 am

command scales way better with ap then sp. 20% coefficient is nothing mean while you have a ton of ap which will increase command damage. if you have 160 spell power which is pretty nice for ret thats only 32 damage on command
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Re: Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

by smilkovpetko » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:17 am

kegboy123 wrote:command scales way better with ap then sp. 20% coefficient is nothing mean while you have a ton of ap which will increase command damage. if you have 160 spell power which is pretty nice for ret thats only 32 damage on command



Meanwhile if you go full Attack Power Gear then your Mana will be "OOM" . This mean your DPS go down to Swings only instead Judges,Consecrations which are part of the DPS.

Paladin Set = Int + Str (ap) + SP + . = SP + AP .

Nothing will replace that . You can argue this until tomorrow but if your gear have 2 Str , 1 Int will boost that 2 Str to even higher Value. Crit/Agility is far more important than Str due to Procs and Flat extra 15% Dmg on Everything.

other than that - Command is not only DPS , neither Melee Swings. We have rotation which is called :

JotC-SoC - JoC - Consecration . Hammer for Execution . Exorcism for Undeads.

Hammer and Exorcism scale with Spell Damage.

JoC + Consecration + SoC = 70% of our DPS . All 3 work with Spell Damage.
SoC+White Swings = 50% of our DPS . 2 work with AP.
White Swings = 30% of our DPS. work with AP.

Consecration + JoC = SP. 50% of our DPS.

JoC + SoC + White Swings = procs on Eye of Sulfuras + LBRS + DMF trinket .

Eye of Sulfuras + LBRS + DMF = Scale with Spell Damage .

JoC + SoC + White Swings = proc Vengeance .

Still 70% of our DPS abilities that require Mana + 30% of our DPS that require 0 Mana .

If we include Procs by the 3 Items mention = 70% of our DPS comes from Spell Damage while 30% of our DPS comes from AP. (in calculation of AP at SoC included) .

or let say :

SoC+JoC+Consecration+3 Items = 80% of our DPS that all of them Scale with Spell Damage.
White Swings will be left out with 20% of our DPS.

Now :
Faster Weapon = Lower Command DPS , Slower Weapon = Higher Command DPS.
Faster Weapon = Higher White Hits , Slower Weapon = Lesser White Hits .

Glancing Blow = 15% or more DPS reduce by White Hits .

AP and SP are on independant scale , they are separated and only 1 thing make them in Common , SoC which is not the only DPS Ability that we use.

If you reduce too much AP , SP abilities will not go much high while you will reduce that 30% DPS.
If you reduce too much SP , AP ability will not go much high while you will reduce that 70% DPS.

Enjoy in PVE Theory if you are capable of understanding it .
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