Retribution Paladin bugs here on Nostalrius

[justclassic]

Perhaps you act like smart person and decide to ignore the fact that "and the special attack critical strikes are always based off the normal swing damage".

Which clearly proves that Critical is not 70% of the swing , but 100% of the swing that multiply by two and does not get reduced by Armor.

1. Your link leads to an wiki - entry from woltk , not sure if that was intended from you:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_C ... did=249861

This is the old entry.


2. No I don't think that I ignored it or that I got that wrong. It is more like the wording of that wowwiki post is quite misleading.

The part you mentioned is supposed to mean that a critical hit of seal of command is based of a normal swing (read: non-crit) of the weapon.

I'll try to put it into numbers to make it more accessible.

Normal swing : 100 dmg (before armor)
Crit swing: 200 dmg (before armor)
Seal of command: 70 dmg ( regardless of how much dmg the white-hit which procced SoC did after armor)
Seal of command crit: 140 dmg (regardless of how much dmg the white-hit crit which procced SoC did after armor)

It doesn't matter if the original swing which procced SoC is a crit or a normal hit, your SoC is always based on a normal swing. That is what your qouted sentence is trying to say. To put that into numbers again:

Normal swing: 100 dmg (before armor)
SoC procc: 70 dmg
SoC procc crit: 140 dmg

Crit swing: 200 dmg ( before armor)
SoC procc: 70 dmg
SoC procc crit: 140 dmg

This is because blizzard didn't want SoC to profit from crit twice. So if it wouldn't be as your sentence sais it would be like:

Crit swing: 200 dmg
SoC procc: 140dmg
SoC procc crit: 280dmg


Also to back up these things:

http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=rXNWvytYbyo (hope this link works as it is tablet link, otherwise just copy the watch-part and use that)

All these things can be seen in this video.

[smilkovpetko]

Let make analyze of your Video :

0:42 661 White Swing (without boost)
0:49 799 Command Swing (without boost)

1:53 1869 White Swing Max Crit , 2100 Seal of Command Max Crit. (with boost)

1:57 1347 White swing Crit , 1577 Seal of Command Crit . (without any boost)

See the difference now .
Now check Theoloras Picture and tell me what is different between them ?

[justclassic]

Let make analyze of your Video :

0:42 661 White Swing (without boost)
0:49 799 Command Swing (without boost)

1:53 1869 White Swing Max Crit , 2100 Seal of Command Max Crit. (with boost)

1:57 1347 White swing Crit , 1577 Seal of Command Crit . (without any boost)

See the difference now .
Now check Theoloras Picture and tell me what is different between them ?

If you had red my posts you would know what the difference is. The difference is that noth and also his minions have armor. Noth around has around 5k armor. So even when he has 5 stacks of sunder armor he still reduces physical dmg by ~33% .

Lets try to get these numbers you are posting from the video:

1:57
(1347 / 0,67) / 2 = 1005,22 raw white normal swing
1005,22 * 0,70 * 2 = 1407,31 crit SoC based on normal swing
1407,31 * 1,1 = 1548,04 SoC dmg after sancity aura

Since the raw white normal swing is in this case calculated on a real hit that happened it is a little inaccurate as the swings have a range ( as we all know ). But the fact that it is still so close to the seen numbers is hardly a coincidence.

You can do this simple calculation for every of your posted examples.


Also the video contains a part at 1:04 which shows a 1646 white-crit causing a 904 SoC non crit procc. If a double crit like you insisted would be possible than this SoC would have at least dealt 1891,67 dmg non crit using the calculation above except for the point where I calculated the raw swing dmg.

[smilkovpetko]

Also the video contains a part at 1:04 which shows a 1646 white-crit causing a 904 SoC non crit procc. If a double crit like you insisted would be possible than this SoC would have at least dealt 1891,67 dmg non crit using the calculation above except for the point where I calculated the raw swing dmg.

Now explain this part where both was with boost.
(assuming jotc gives 160 spell damage with 29% coefficent for command)

1:53 1869 White Swing Max Crit , 2100 Seal of Command Max Crit. (with boost)

[justclassic]

Also the video contains a part at 1:04 which shows a 1646 white-crit causing a 904 SoC non crit procc. If a double crit like you insisted would be possible than this SoC would have at least dealt 1891,67 dmg non crit using the calculation above except for the point where I calculated the raw swing dmg.

Now explain this part where both was with boost.
(assuming jotc gives 160 spell damage with 29% coefficent for command)

1:53 1869 White Swing Max Crit , 2100 Seal of Command Max Crit. (with boost)

(1869 / 0,67) / 2 = 1384,78 raw white normal swing
((1384,78 * 0,7) + ( 160 * 0,29 )) * 2 = 2031,49 SoC crit proc based on raw normal swing and Sotcdebuff
2031,49 * 1,1 = 2234,64 dmg with sancity aura

Again very close. If we include inaccuracies because of the raw white swing calculation as we don't know the exact range this becomes very reasonable.

[smilkovpetko]

Also the video contains a part at 1:04 which shows a 1646 white-crit causing a 904 SoC non crit procc. If a double crit like you insisted would be possible than this SoC would have at least dealt 1891,67 dmg non crit using the calculation above except for the point where I calculated the raw swing dmg.

Now explain this part where both was with boost.
(assuming jotc gives 160 spell damage with 29% coefficent for command)

1:53 1869 White Swing Max Crit , 2100 Seal of Command Max Crit. (with boost)

(1869 / 0,67) / 2 = 1384,78 raw white normal swing
((1384,78 * 0,7) + ( 160 * 0,29 )) * 2 = 2031,49 SoC crit proc based on raw normal swing and Sotcdebuff
2031,49 * 1,1 = 2234,64 dmg with sancity aura

Again very close. If we include inaccuracies because of the raw white swing calculation as we don't know the exact range this becomes very reasonable.

Now see the difference :

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img911/936/3r7LNB.jpg

[justclassic]

Now see the difference :

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img911/936/3r7LNB.jpg

I can see the difference. And just like I told you before I'd guess that these brutes have close to 0 armor resulting in a higher white swing Crit than SoC crit .

Also it seems like he didn't have sancity aura activated (guessing from his buff bar)

902/2 = 451 raw white normal swing ( target has no armor)

451 * 0,7 * 2 = 631 dmg SoC crit based on raw white normal swing

Again this is fairly close when knowing that there are inaccuracies due to the range of white swings dmg when calculating raw white normal swing.


EDIT: If they have armor (someone should go and look that up with an armor macro) than I could only explain it with the white swing being a very high role in the damage range and the SoC being a very low roll in his range.

[Theloras]

Now see the difference :

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img911/936/3r7LNB.jpg

I can see the difference. And just like I told you before I'd guess that these brutes have close to 0 armor resulting in a higher white swing Crit than SoC crit .

Also it seems like he didn't have sancity aura activated (guessing from his buff bar)

902/2 = 451 raw white normal swing ( target has no armor)

451 * 0,7 * 2 = 631 dmg SoC crit based on raw white normal swing

Again this is fairly close when knowing that there are inaccuracies due to the range of white swings dmg when calculating raw white normal swing.


EDIT: If they have armor (someone should go and look that up with an armor macro) than I could only explain it with the white swing being a very high role in the damage range and the SoC being a very low roll in his range.

http://imageshack.com/a/img907/9527/d5ank7.jpg
874 armour

[justclassic]

Now see the difference :

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img911/936/3r7LNB.jpg

I can see the difference. And just like I told you before I'd guess that these brutes have close to 0 armor resulting in a higher white swing Crit than SoC crit .

Also it seems like he didn't have sancity aura activated (guessing from his buff bar)

902/2 = 451 raw white normal swing ( target has no armor)

451 * 0,7 * 2 = 631 dmg SoC crit based on raw white normal swing

Again this is fairly close when knowing that there are inaccuracies due to the range of white swings dmg when calculating raw white normal swing.


EDIT: If they have armor (someone should go and look that up with an armor macro) than I could only explain it with the white swing being a very high role in the damage range and the SoC being a very low roll in his range.

http://imageshack.com/a/img907/9527/d5ank7.jpg
874 armour

Hey theloras, thanks for checking this out.

Lets put that in the Armor formular.

( 874 / ( 400 + 85*60 + 874 )) * 100 =

( 874 / ( 400 + 5100 + 874 )) * 100 =

(874 / ( 6374 )) * 100 =

0,1371 * 100 = 13,71% dmg reduction vs lvl 60 player

Okay now that we got this let's go back to our SoC calculation.


(902 / 0,8629 ) / 2 = 522,66 raw normal swing

522,66 * 0,7 * 2 = 731,72 SoC crit proc based on raw normal swing


In my opinion this should still be within the possible range as the white swing could have rolled very high while the SoC rolled very low.

Can you remember if you had the sotc debuff on the mob ?

[Theloras]

judgement of the crusader was not applied