Paladin Ret on the Raiding Life

[justclassic]

Meanwhile if you go full Attack Power Gear then your Mana will be "OOM" . This mean your DPS go down to Swings only instead Judges,Consecrations which are part of the DPS.

How big is the difference of the manapool between an AP-Build and an SP-Build ?

Paladin Set = Int + Str (ap) + SP + . = SP + AP .

Just because its a classes set doensnt mean its the best they can do.

Nothing will replace that . You can argue this until tomorrow but if your gear have 2 Str , 1 Int will boost that 2 Str to even higher Value.

How does Int boost Str in any way ? Or are you talking about having a bigger manapool allowing it to use more spells ?

Crit/Agility is far more important than Str due to Procs and Flat extra 15% Dmg on Everything.

"Far more important" is not really exact. How much better and is there some kind of softcap and maybe some kind of calculation to back up these statements ?

other than that - Command is not only DPS , neither Melee Swings. We have rotation which is called :

JotC-SoC - JoC - Consecration . Hammer for Execution . Exorcism for Undeads.

Wouldn't it be more like a priority list rather than a "rotation" ?

Hammer and Exorcism scale with Spell Damage.

Currently Hammer scales with AP as well.

JoC + Consecration + SoC = 70% of our DPS . All 3 work with Spell Damage.
SoC+White Swings = 50% of our DPS . 2 work with AP.
White Swings = 30% of our DPS. work with AP.
Consecration + JoC = SP. 50% of our DPS.

Source ? Logs maybe ?

So you're saying that JoC + Consec are 50% of our DPS ? We cant really use Consec atm as we dont have a debuff slot and if it would work properply than it wouldn't really deal any dmg as it is supposed to only scale with SP.

JoC + SoC + White Swings = procs on Eye of Sulfuras + LBRS + DMF trinket .

Eye of Sulfuras + LBRS + DMF = Scale with Spell Damage .

The Eye of Sulfuras is a legendary questitem ? How can it proc ?

The LBRS-Trinket is supposed to have a quite low PPM-Ratio so how can it be useful ?

DMF-Card doesn't have PPM which is utterly bad for us as we want a very slow 2h-weapon, right ?

SoC+JoC+Consecration+3 Items = 80% of our DPS that all of them Scale with Spell Damage.
White Swings will be left out with 20% of our DPS.

I'd really love to see some logs which back up one of these statements otherwise they are just words in an internet forum.

Now :
Faster Weapon = Lower Command DPS , Slower Weapon = Higher Command DPS.
Faster Weapon = Higher White Hits , Slower Weapon = Lesser White Hits .

I totally get the Command Part as it works with a PPM-Ratio.

But the White Hit part is kinda messed up. When you say "higher" are you talking about "higher amounts" or "higher damage" and "slower weapons = lesser white hits" ?!?.

Please elaborate.

Glancing Blow = 15% or more DPS reduce by White Hits .

Not if we have weaponrating. And humans get 5 for free on maces + swords.

If you reduce too much AP , SP abilities will not go much high while you will reduce that 30% DPS.
If you reduce too much SP , AP ability will not go much high while you will reduce that 70% DPS.

WHAT?! Could you rewrite that ? Though english is not my first language i usually get what people are trying to say but im totally lost on this one.

Yes all those 3 Items i mention Scale with Spell Damage and should Scale. I will welcome Theoloras to give you shot about that since he know all the sources about such items.

They might scale, but their scaling is like utterly terrible. Most private servers have the bug that every spell linked to items is treated as an instant spell and scaling with aprox 43% but they definetly shouldn't.

Taken more serious ? What about ? The gearwise and DPS ? ...

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 8921_o.jpg

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 9804_o.jpg

I really dont want to be the mean guy but I don't see any kind of proof in these pictures. Those damagemeters could show any unknown timeframe.

The fact that our DPS would be much Higher if Consecration didn't get wiped by another Consecration or Maximum Debuff slots is Real.

If Consec would work properly I would barely do any damage at all. As it isn't supposed to scale with AP.

The fact that our DPS would be much Higher if Sanctity Aura didn't get wiped out on SoC , JoC is Real.

"much" ? More like 10% of the part of our DPS which is holy dmg. And I havn't seen any source yet which provides useful information about how much that might be ?!

The fact that we would been lesser "OOM" and spam more Max Rank JoC if Benediction was working is Real.

Well I dont think that 15% would be that much if you anyway say that we should use high rank consecration as consec consumes way more mana then anything else.

Regarding Command :

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_C ... did=249861

7 Str or 14 AP = 1 Damage Per Hit
14 SP = 2.8 Damage per hit
7 SP = 1.8 Damage per hit

I red that wowwiki entry but I dont know where you got those numbers from ? Care to elaborate ?

Also "1 Damage Per Hit" of what ? Of a SoCommand-Procc ?

[smilkovpetko]

I usual trying to avoid too large posts but as i said (who understood understood , who doesn't never will) .

How big is the difference of the manapool between an AP-Build and an SP-Build ?

Paladin Sets = Tier 2 = you would end up with 5-6k Mana pool and consist AP+SP .

You also must be specified about what items you talk about before you ask this question .

If you use items that consist (Warrior Gear) they have 0 Int 0 Mana then you will end up OOM and barely 2-3k Mana maximum.

Just because its a classes set doensnt mean its the best they can do.

How did you got that Class Set is not best for PVE? When it consist every stat that we need and our Abilities that need.

How does Int boost Str in any way ? [u]Or are you talking about having a bigger manapool allowing it to use more spells [/u]

You have answered that question by your own.

"Far more important" is not really exact. How much better and is there some kind of softcap and maybe some kind of calculation to back up these statements ?

Soft Cap is 25% , Hard Cap is 30-40%. Because we must not risk out Paladin Sets (gear that consist every single stat) and that set will not give us enough Crit to get this Cap we need to fill it with Enchants and Consumes.

Str Scaling is poor regarding DPS explained (toward command and white hits with glancing blows).

Wouldn't it be more like a priority list rather than a "rotation" ?

Priority list is to keep our JotC on target. everything else i mention is rotation where you use Consecration last (that will benefit from crits of other abilities) .

Currently Hammer scales with AP as well.

maybe it does with AP in Nostalrius but it scales with SP lot more.
(as i talk the retail way).


Source ? Logs maybe ?

So you're saying that JoC + Consec are 50% of our DPS ?

Well give a shot with 200 Spell Damage (flask+greater arcane elixir) and Extract your Full Mana on JoC Max Rank and Consecration Max rank - then get that prove by yourself . (it still matter what weapon you use, since my calculations were done on 2h weapon which suit us best on DPS such as Unstoppable Force or Draconic Maul etc) .

We cant really use Consec atm as we dont have a debuff slot and if it would work properply than it wouldn't really deal any dmg as it is supposed to only scale with SP.

And Consec beside the Scale with SP - Grows up by Vengeance and Sanctity Aura which actually get its Real dmg.

The Eye of Sulfuras is a legendary questitem ? How can it proc ?

Political Correctness? never ever try that because i usual set on ignore list everyone that try this .
We all know that i talk about Legendary 2H Mace there is no need to act stupid and ask stupid questions.
It also proc Fireball.

The LBRS-Trinket is supposed to have a quite low PPM-Ratio so how can it be useful ?

http://www.wowhead.com/item=22321/heart ... k#comments

5 Minutes of auto attacking with a 2.90 one hander produced 6 procs.

5 Minutes of auto attacking while spamming devastate produced 23

This item has no internal cooldown, procs off specials.

This can crit, And it procs much more often on slower weapons

Which mean it is not PPM and is highly efficient when we spam Abilities . (such as JoC,SoC etc) .
+ it proc Vengeance

DMF-Card doesn't have PPM which is utterly bad for us as we want a very slow 2h-weapon, right ?

It can proc from SoC , JoC . which it increase the proc chances lot more + it proc Vengeance .

I'd really love to see some logs which back up one of these statements otherwise they are just words in an internet forum.

How can i give you such logs when JoC and SoC are not even working with SP ?!.

But you can test yourself with the current bug state spamming them on Max Rank and on CD using Supreme Flask and Greater Arcane Elixir.

I totally get the Command Part as it works with a PPM-Ratio.

But the White Hit part is kinda messed up. When you say "higher" are you talking about "higher amounts" or "higher damage" and "slower weapons = lesser white hits" ?!?.

Please elaborate.

When you have slower Weapon your white hits will do higher amount but slowly , in which this higher amount get higher penalty amount by Glancing Blows.

Not if we have weaponrating. And humans get 5 for free on maces + swords.

I was specifically talking about Humans and included that extra Weapon Skill. And there is no good Weapon that give us extra 5 to reduce that 15% to 5% since it is saying that you can't be 0%.

WHAT?! Could you rewrite that ? Though english is not my first language i usually get what people are trying to say but im totally lost on this one.

If you paid attention toward previous comments i did you would understood that . otherwise i am not gonna repeat something that i have said.
(if you reduce mean if you reduce that stat from gear) (abilities/melee swings affected by that stat will get low).

They might scale, but their scaling is like utterly terrible. Most private servers have the bug that every spell linked to items is treated as an instant spell and scaling with aprox 43% but they definetly shouldn't.

Terrible or not they still get pretty much when we build up over 300 Spell Damage or more. Thus the trinkets i already mention are so useful due their crits proc our vengeance and their procs affected by soc/joc.

I really dont want to be the mean guy but I don't see any kind of proof in these pictures. Those damagemeters could show any unknown timeframe.

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidO ... Raid=11055

(from Molten Core) . If you scroll further down you would see the "Overall Damage" .

Damage/Healing total

#1 Killerduki 892133(117/s) 5.6%
#2 Istas 831905(109/s) 5.3%

(keep noted that i was still extremely bugged when i did this damage).

"much" ? More like 10% of the part of our DPS which is holy dmg. And I havn't seen any source yet which provides useful information about how much that might be ?!

(if in the log i posted on previous statement where i am 892133 (let say 30% of that was White dmg or less but i will poke the 30%).

It will come 624.493 damage made only by Holy ! . 62.449 would be damage increased by Sanctity Aura.

Well I dont think that 15% would be that much if you anyway say that we should use high rank consecration as consec consumes way more mana then anything else.

15% is for Seals and not Consecration . Where 15% out of 300 - 500 Mana wasted or more (toward the rotation i mention ) actual mean something. Where my main priority is to keep JoC on CD and SoC active all the time while JotC on target. Overall fight over 3 minutes "probably" will save us "assuming" around 1k Mana.

I red that wowwiki entry but I dont know where you got those numbers from ? Care to elaborate ?

Also "1 Damage Per Hit" of what ? Of a SoCommand-Procc ?

I see you didn't read anything at all , if you have read you would seen that part there where 14 Attack power increase 1 damage to Command proc..

[Ihealwpvp]

ret paladins are mathematically low dps. better of maximizing the class's potential and specing holy. or if you are going to min-max dps, roll a rogue.

[Baalls]

ret paladins are mathematically low dps. better of maximizing the class's potential and specing holy. or if you are going to min-max dps, roll a rogue.

If you are not willing to contribute to the conversation, get out. Nobody is trying to compete with pure dps classes. Only maximize situational potential and learn all they can about a class _you play_. You are a detriment.

[Magnifican]

Have all of these reports been sent to the bugtracker? I noticed today that alot of my judgements simply dissapear for no reason. I get no feedback from it, does not say it missed or got resisted or anything.

Also, sometimes my spelldamage is partially resisted, I use SCT damage addon and it shows quite often that some hits get resisted, its very random, but holy isnt suppose to get resisted at all right? Not even partially, ever

[justclassic]

I usual trying to avoid too large posts but as i said (who understood understood , who doesn't never will) .

My post was more or less about finding out about how much you know about certain game mechanics as some of your statements were so poorly written that i didn't know if you simply were wrong or if you just couldn't say it correctly.

How did you got that Class Set is not best for PVE? When it consist every stat that we need and our Abilities that need.

Because there are way better items which only contain our best! stats ?!

How does Int boost Str in any way ? [u]Or are you talking about having a bigger manapool allowing it to use more spells [/u]

You have answered that question by your own.

This statement was countered by one of your own arguments when you said that basicly none of our real mana consuming abilities scale (or are supposed to) with AP. So why would being able to cast more spells boost str if the only spell effected by AP is SoCommand-Proccs which you said would be like 20% or less of our dmg.

Soft Cap is 25% , Hard Cap is 30-40%. Because we must not risk out Paladin Sets (gear that consist every single stat) and that set will not give us enough Crit to get this Cap we need to fill it with Enchants and Consumes.

Definition of Soft-Cap: The point at which the value of a stat starts to decrease immensely.
Definition of Hard-Cap: The point at which a stat nolonger provides ANY use to us.

Soft-Cap:

Crit in general loses value while getting more and more crit rating. Each % of crit is getting less and less valuable the more you have. (All Clases)

If we now also look at paladins specificaly our Soft-Cap really relies on the swing-timer of our weapon as vengeance is a crucial part of our dps. The moment crit does no longer really increase our vengeance uptime by a useful amount the soft-cap is reached.

I think we know that we're supposed to use a slow weapon so we likely get 2 Meele-Hits into a 8second window. We also get ~0.93 SoCommand Procs and 1 Judgement into 8 Seconds. So on average we dont get 4 Attacks into ours 8 second and this is even ignoring the fact that attacks might be dodged or missed.

This leads to the assumption that 25% crit is highly unlikely our soft-cap which should be somewhere around 33%.

Hard-Cap:
53,8% (If 100% Hit is achieved)

Priority list is to keep our JotC on target. everything else i mention is rotation where you use Consecration last (that will benefit from crits of other abilities) .

No a rotation would imply that the order of spells would never(very rarely) be interrupted while a Priority list ranks spells after usefullness and will want you to cast the more important spell first if it is available. And that is 100% what your wrote.

Well give a shot with 200 Spell Damage (flask+greater arcane elixir) and Extract your Full Mana on JoC Max Rank and Consecration Max rank.

Since you said you are looking the retail way lets give it a shot:

Consecration didnt scale with AP so a naked, nonbuffed Paladin without talents would deal 48 Dmg per Second.

So getting all these SP-buffs(~200SP) + gear(200SP) will result in ~ 400 SP. Not gonna calculate with JotC as it is highly unlikely you'll get a debuff slot for it.

You mentioned that Consec scaled with roughly 33% which leads to 48 + ( (400 * 0,33) / 8ticks ) = 64.5.

Sancity Aura would bring this up to 70,95 ( 64.5 * 1,1 ).

And if we were lucky enough to get our vengeance rolling while wearing your so called "Great Set T2" we would end up at around 81,5925.

As WoW cuts behind the comma consecration would deal 81 Dmg per Second.


JoCommand deals 356,5 Dmg on average.

Your linked Source sais that JoCommand scales with ~43% which leads to 356,5 + ( 400 * 0,43) = 528,5

Sancity Aura would bringt this up to 581,35 ( 525,5 * 1,1 ).

And if we were lucky enough to get our vengeance rolling while wearing your so called "Great Set T2" we would end up at around 668,5525.

As we can use Judgement every 8 second this would result in 668 / 8 = 83.5 Dmg per Second.


You keep posting and posting that JoCommand and Consec would be around 50% of our total dmg.

I think 329 ((81 + 83,5)*2 )DPS would really suck for a full buffed DPS-Class with T2-Like Gear.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=22321/heart ... k#comments

5 Minutes of auto attacking with a 2.90 one hander produced 6 procs.

5 Minutes of auto attacking while spamming devastate produced 23

This item has no internal cooldown, procs off specials.

This can crit, And it procs much more often on slower weapons

Which mean it is not PPM and is highly efficient when we spam Abilities . (such as JoC,SoC etc) .
+ it proc Vengeance

Do you even understand what you are tiping ? You even qoute that it proccs more often on slow weapons which means it is PPM!

Though the %-Chance of an PPM-Spell-Item-whatever is only calculated with the swingtimer of the used weapons it can still be procced by styles. Resulting in a lot more proccs if you are playing a class that wears a very slow 2h weapon but got lots of styles.

It can proc from SoC , JoC . which it increase the proc chances lot more + it proc Vengeance .

No. Using more attacks/spells which can result in a proc does NOT increase the proc chance. It might increase the amount of proccs you'll get in a fixed timeintervall but it doesnt change the proc chance.

Also DMC-Procc-Chance is about 1,5%.

So lets say we're using a 3.8 weapon, get 7 PPM on SoC and use Judgement on CD we'd get:

15,79( 60 / 3.8 ) + 7 + 7,5 ( 60 / 8 ) = 30,29 Attacks per Minute.

This would lead to 0,45435 (30,29 * 0,015) DMC-Proccs-Per Minute.

That would be 113,5875 Dmg Per Minute -> being 1,8931 DPS (without thinking about possible resists)

DMC sucks as soon as we start getting raid-gear. Lots of other trinkets will be better.

Terrible or not they still get pretty much when we build up over 300 Spell Damage or more. Thus the trinkets i already mention are so useful due their crits proc our vengeance and their procs affected by soc/joc.

No. Terrible means they dont get much, regardless of how much SP you got. Also your spell-crit-chance is used for DMC and LBRS Trinket. So these two are extremly unlikely to procc and then they even have a crazy low chance to crit, so dont really influence our vengeance uptime at all.

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidO ... Raid=11055

(from Molten Core) . If you scroll further down you would see the "Overall Damage" .

Damage/Healing total

#1 Killerduki 892133(117/s) 5.6%
#2 Istas 831905(109/s) 5.3%

Yes. Overall Damage with Trash. Nobody cares about Trash. In Boss Dmg you are only 13th with 293 DPS. The DPS is more saying than the rank. And the DPS is not really convincing.

15% is for Seals and not Consecration . Where 15% out of 300 - 500 Mana wasted or more (toward the rotation i mention ) actual mean something. Where my main priority is to keep JoC on CD and SoC active all the time while JotC on target. Overall fight over 3 minutes "probably" will save us "assuming" around 1k Mana.

SoC 210 Mana + Judgement 90 Mana = 300 Mana * 0,15 = 45 Mana saved every 8 seconds.

180/8 = 22.5 * 45 = 1012,5 Mana saved in 3min. Pretty good gues you did there.


BUT my point was more about the aspect that spamming MAX Consec + JoCommand + SoCommand would require heavy use of consumables anyway so that the 15% saved wouldn't really matter.

As Spamming these 3 spells would result in 865 * 22,5 = 19462,5 Mana needed in 3min (without Benediction).

Reducing that amount by 1012,5 would still result in more then 18000 Mana in 3 Minutes which would even in the best possible gear, full buffed, spamming consumables be an impossible amount to reach.

I see you didn't read anything at all , if you have read you would seen that part there where 14 Attack power increase 1 damage to Command proc..

You know this last question i asked was just about your own knowledge and you utterly failed. Because if you would have the slightest clue you'd know that the source you linked is incorrect.

14 AP = 1 Meele-DPS

Meele-DPS is multiplied with your weaponspeed and then you'll get 70% of that added as DMG to your Command-Procc.

So if we use a 3.8 2h-weapon 14AP would result in:

1 * 3,8 * 0,7 = 2,66 Dmg added to the Command Procc (before adding sancity or vengeance of course)

Also this calculation is ignoring 6% increased 2h-Dmg which would increase it even a little bit more.

[smilkovpetko]

It's our Nature to make tiny mistakes , but we should not abuse them .

let me explain you something that you clearly ignored with or without purpose.

My post was more or less about finding out about how much you know about certain game mechanics as some of your statements were so poorly written that i didn't know if you simply were wrong or if you just couldn't say it correctly.

If i can't explain something pretty well or i lack some knowledge about it , but i am doing in that way much better than the explanation . Doesn't mean that i am wrong since i give evidences with what i have been achieving .

Or maybe you abuse my "poor English" in order to caught me in Cage and set me wrong . (you can easy do that).

Because there are way better items which only contain our best! stats ?!

Yes there are offset items outside from our Tier which are i can't deny pretty good ONLY! if they consist every single stat (sp+str+agi+int) in 1 single item. There is no doubt and they are clearly either Paladin or Shaman (i lack of shaman knowledge but i assume) items.

Using Str Items (which can be fill with some Paladin item(explained above) ) will make every other ability poor that we have . Or either the Mana pool will be poor that we have . (even the opposite of using int+sp reduce the swings or melee crits etc).

We need to Balance and this should be done with filling every possible slot that we have with Paladin Gear (that consist every single stat more or less str+sp + int as mandatory) .

Fingers , neck, cloak usual doesn't consist of such mandatory stat (either missing str or int or sp) should be focused on getting the Melee Hit Cap and Agi/Crit as Prio.

This statement was countered by one of your own arguments when you said that basicly none of our real mana consuming abilities scale (or are supposed to) with AP. So why would being able to cast more spells boost str if the only spell effected by AP is SoCommand-Proccs which you said would be like 20% or less of our dmg.

Just example i will give , you have Consecration which is boosted by AP , you have hammer which is boosted by AP , you have Command which is boosted by AP . Spamming them more often require Mana , and Mana is increasing their Damage.

(this was example of current state) . But as i said STR is our Last Stat that we should go for , which is only for Command and White Swings . (poor for Command and good for White Swings) .

Where Agility have much higher Value and is Boosted by Intellect (using more often JoC and SoC) that can crit and are affected by Melee Crit.

Definition of Soft-Cap: The point at which the value of a stat starts to decrease immensely.
Definition of Hard-Cap: The point at which a stat nolonger provides ANY use to us.

Soft-Cap:

Crit in general loses value while getting more and more crit rating. Each % of crit is getting less and less valuable the more you have. (All Clases)

If we now also look at paladins specificaly our Soft-Cap really relies on the swing-timer of our weapon as vengeance is a crucial part of our dps. The moment crit does no longer really increase our vengeance uptime by a useful amount the soft-cap is reached.

I think we know that we're supposed to use a slow weapon so we likely get 2 Meele-Hits into a 8second window. We also get ~0.93 SoCommand Procs and 1 Judgement into 8 Seconds. So on average we dont get 4 Attacks into ours 8 second and this is even ignoring the fact that attacks might be dodged or missed.

This leads to the assumption that 25% crit is highly unlikely our soft-cap which should be somewhere around 33%.

Hard-Cap:
53,8% (If 100% Hit is achieved)

Just to remind you that you talk about Melee Swings .

SoC , JoC are not affected by ANY! cap and scale on each extra % . so we can't define the "real cap" but i said that Mandatory cap that we need is 25-40% (or between) in which this grow up thanks to SoC and JoC which multiply our Crit (boosting it like extra swing) .

But as i pointed , we don't want to risk other stats like Int or SP so we need sort of "gear balance usage explained at beginning" .

No a rotation would imply that the order of spells would never(very rarely) be interrupted while a Priority list ranks spells after usefullness and will want you to cast the more important spell first if it is available. And that is 100% what your wrote.

I would never ever or rarely use Consecration unless Vengeance proc by Either "hammer,trinkets,exorcism,SoC,JoC" since it will be Mana Inefficient and poor DPS on 1 Target.

This make "Rotation" where we focus on SoC and JoC as Prio and Consecration only according to "proc from crit" .

Since you said you are looking the retail way lets give it a shot:

Consecration didnt scale with AP so a naked, nonbuffed Paladin without talents would deal 48 Dmg per Second.

So getting all these SP-buffs(~200SP) + gear(200SP) will result in ~ 400 SP. Not gonna calculate with JotC as it is highly unlikely you'll get a debuff slot for it.

You mentioned that Consec scaled with roughly 33% which leads to 48 + ( (400 * 0,33) / 8ticks ) = 64.5.

Sancity Aura would bring this up to 70,95 ( 64.5 * 1,1 ).

And if we were lucky enough to get our vengeance rolling while wearing your so called "Great Set T2" we would end up at around 81,5925.

As WoW cuts behind the comma consecration would deal 81 Dmg per Second.


JoCommand deals 356,5 Dmg on average.

Your linked Source sais that JoCommand scales with ~43% which leads to 356,5 + ( 400 * 0,43) = 528,5

Sancity Aura would bringt this up to 581,35 ( 525,5 * 1,1 ).

And if we were lucky enough to get our vengeance rolling while wearing your so called "Great Set T2" we would end up at around 668,5525.

As we can use Judgement every 8 second this would result in 668 / 8 = 83.5 Dmg per Second.


You keep posting and posting that JoCommand and Consec would be around 50% of our total dmg.

I think 329 ((81 + 83,5)*2 )DPS would really suck for a full buffed DPS-Class with T2-Like Gear.

First of all i don't know where from you got that Consecration scale 33% with SP ? Because the website that is telling this is neither official Blizzard website , neither any explanation to prove that.

In such case i have leak some information by "Archives" from wowwiki where it explain that Consecration scale even more than 33% .

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Consecration?oldid=689618

Coefficient

Consecration takes 76% of Spell Damage when calculating additional damage.

You can see what have been found in archives in wowwiki about items scale.

Now you forget that we can even use "Twisting Seal" which is affected by Spell Damage. And can be done thanks to Command delaying .

Another thing is that you "unlikely get debuff slot so i don't calculate JotC" . Which is irrelevant to talk because i have been always using JotC to give result.

Beside if we talk about "Retail" ways things would been much different (my 50% was about privacy server which in fact scale different) + you never mention JoC "Crits" .

Even if 160 DPS are Achieved "and i am obviously making mistakes sometime so you shoot me at this tiny stupid stuffs" this JoC is pretty much boosting the "Procs" in which is part of boosting other "melee swings+soc" + trinkets procs that increase it's value of DPS.

Do you even understand what you are tiping ? You even qoute that it proccs more often on slow weapons which means it is PPM!

Though the %-Chance of an PPM-Spell-Item-whatever is only calculated with the swingtimer of the used weapons it can still be procced by styles. Resulting in a lot more proccs if you are playing a class that wears a very slow 2h weapon but got lots of styles.

Maybe it is "PPM" for Weapon (which it will be White Swings) but from the Sources i pointed you would see that over 5 minutes it already Proc 16 Times! from Special Abilities which is making your calculations irrelevant .

Maybe it work in "double standards ways" but it is already clearly explained that it proc more from Slow Weapon but it proc Extremely high from Special Abilities ! . (where in fact SoC , JoC ) are Special Abilities and are not affected by PPM from the "Trinket" .

No. Terrible means they dont get much, regardless of how much SP you got. Also your spell-crit-chance is used for DMC and LBRS Trinket. So these two are extremly unlikely to procc and then they even have a crazy low chance to crit, so dont really influence our vengeance uptime at all.

Now tell me how Terrible according to you their Coefficients are?! which you obviously trying to prove that is terrible . Please define and give me numbers.

but beside using 3x of them multiply the chances of "extra crit" bonus for our Vengeance which in fact is still lot . (holystrike from this server even got that evidence about how it affected his dps after using DMF).

Yes. Overall Damage with Trash. Nobody cares about Trash. In Boss Dmg you are only 13th with 293 DPS. The DPS is more saying than the rank. And the DPS is not really convincing.

The server was obviously bugged terrible to gain the DPS i go for . But let me give you "log" with "Non Undead" Boss 1 Target DPS (Golemagg) which is pretty much the same as "Patchwerk" .

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... t=14151242

Which barely even someone from Peenix beating this using their "Very BiS" Weapon vs my Poor Draconic Maul Weapon.

Where at single Point on my "Full DPS" part i achieved :

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 1736_o.jpg

Find me any Paladin that would get this high DPS that is "Marked" on 1 Target.

SoC 210 Mana + Judgement 90 Mana = 300 Mana * 0,15 = 45 Mana saved every 8 seconds.

180/8 = 22.5 * 45 = 1012,5 Mana saved in 3min. Pretty good gues you did there.


BUT my point was more about the aspect that spamming MAX Consec + JoCommand + SoCommand would require heavy use of consumables anyway so that the 15% saved wouldn't really matter.

As Spamming these 3 spells would result in 865 * 22,5 = 19462,5 Mana needed in 3min (without Benediction).

Reducing that amount by 1012,5 would still result in more then 18000 Mana in 3 Minutes which would even in the best possible gear, full buffed, spamming consumables be an impossible amount to reach.

First of all there are extremely low "parts" and "bosses" where you burst over 3 Minutes. Which is unlikely irrelevant toward your Calculations , Find me any Boss that "you would 100% full dps" over 3 Minutes?! (Except Naxx where Consecration get's replaced by Exorcism and we get much better mana from 2.5).

Now in "peenix" i could even reach 9k Mana Fully Buffed , where Demonic Rune + Major Mana Potion CD is 2 Minutes.

Include Rune+Major Mana Potion = 3-4 k (which over 3 minutes is used 2 times) 6-8 k Mana.

9+8k = 17 k + MP5 from Gear/Buffs you got that 18k you ask for and sound delusional for you.
(perhaps i would have 10-15 seconds) melee swings none the less.

You know this last question i asked was just about your own knowledge and you utterly failed. Because if you would have the slightest clue you'd know that the source you linked is incorrect.

14 AP = 1 Meele-DPS

Meele-DPS is multiplied with your weaponspeed and then you'll get 70% of that added as DMG to your Command-Procc.

So if we use a 3.8 2h-weapon 14AP would result in:

1 * 3,8 * 0,7 = 2,66 Dmg added to the Command Procc (before adding sancity or vengeance of course)

Also this calculation is ignoring 6% increased 2h-Dmg which would increase it even a little bit more.

I didn't failed anything at all , the sources given are from "WoWWiki" where it clearly saying that 14 AP = 1 Command damage extra . There is no need to explain melee or whatever , i just said that Command is more Benefit from SP than AP.

White hits (increased by AP) will not add toward Command Damage. Only 70% of Weapon will be add toward Command Damage.

[kegboy123]

how much does attack power increase white damage for paladin?

[smilkovpetko]

how much does attack power increase white damage for paladin?

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_power_coefficient

Weapon speed / Main hand and ranged / Off-hand
1.3 / 9.3% / 4.6%
1.4 / 10.0% / 5.0%
1.5 / 10.7% / 5.4%
1.6 / 11.4% / 5.7%
1.7 / 12.1% / 6.1%
1.8 / 12.9% / 6.4%
1.9 / 13.6% / 6.8%
2.0 / 14.3% / 7.1%
2.1 / 15.0% / 7.5%
2.2 / 15.7% / 7.9%
2.3 / 16.4% / 8.2%
2.4 / 17.1% / 8.6%
2.5 / 17.9% / 8.9%
2.6 / 18.6% / 9.3%
2.7 / 19.3% / 9.6%
2.8 / 20.0% / 10.0%
2.9 / 20.7% / 10.4%
3.0 / 21.4% / 10.7%
3.1 / 22.1% / 11.1%
3.2 / 22.9% / 11.4%
3.3 / 23.6% / 11.8%
3.4 / 24.3% / 12.1%
3.5 / 25.0% / 12.5%
3.6 / 25.7% / 12.9%
3.7 / 26.4% / 13.2%
3.8 / 27.1% /13.6%
3.9 / 27.9% / 13.9%
4.0 / 28.6% / 14.3%

[stimz]

Consecration does 33% in vanilla. 76% is with buffs in TBC to channeled and DoT spells.